I am a bit ticked at people with no imagination!

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washingtonwriter1968
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I am a bit ticked at people with no imagination!

Post by washingtonwriter1968 » August 12th, 2011, 5:54 pm

:x I have been trying to talk to some folks on a physics forum concerning my world building.
I described my idea this way. There are two realities in existence
1. Our reality(a Younger also fetal like universe living inside another)
2. My Alternate Reality(Parent Universe)
3. Separated By a M-Brane ( almost like a placental sack)

Keep in mind I did not postulate this as a actual theory but a fictional theory my MC creates to explain what she experiences to another scientific minded person. Those of you have followed my posts know that this is in actuality a Supernatural Romance. My MC is not a believer in the supernatural. she is trying to make what she is experiencing make sense.

Anyway this guy responds by tearing the whole idea apart and then telling me none of it is possible in any scientific theoretical context and then precedes to tell me to go write my fantasy and quit trying to get them to put a stamp of approval as a scientific fact what can not be made scientific. He called me a rationalist and said that empirical truths were what science is, not trying to make your world be real and rationalize why it is real.

Now to be fair not all the guys felt like that in any way. But I kept thinking, I wonder how it was he got interested in science in the first place? Did he never see a science fiction show or read a book. Imagination and thinking outside the box is what has advanced technology as far as it has. If no one asked What if I change just this one thing? what would happen if I did?...

* OK I am done with the rant! *

Anyway, have you ever had to deal with this kind of thing? :?: If so, How did you deal with it? :?:
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Re: I am a bit ticked at people with no imagination!

Post by polymath » August 12th, 2011, 6:35 pm

Sounds to me like someone who blissfully lets others do his thinking for him. No way to break new ground that way, nor innovate, nor create.
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Re: I am a bit ticked at people with no imagination!

Post by GKJeyasingham » August 12th, 2011, 7:24 pm

Haha, yeah, I can see how that would be annoying. But really, why post that on a physics forum? I'm a science major, and (to be honest) if I was a physicist visiting a forum about physics and saw a fictional theory such as yours, this is what I would think:

1) The reason you were posting on a physics forum is because you wanted a physicist's opinion on the credibility of said theory (i.e. I would think you were writing science fiction instead a supernatural romance).
2) Because of this mindset, I would assess the credibility of your theory. And from a physicist's perspective (or even just from the perspective of a scientist), the theory you have doesn't really make much sense to be honest.

So yeah, maybe the guy wasn't clear on what your intentions were. Maybe he thought you were trying to write a believable science fiction novel rather than a supernatural romance.

In any case, I'm still not sure what you hoped to gain by posting that on a physics forum.

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Re: I am a bit ticked at people with no imagination!

Post by washingtonwriter1968 » August 12th, 2011, 7:54 pm

@ GKJeyasingham
OK Let me explain.
1.MY MC isn't a believer in the Supernatural.
2. she has just had a supernatural Experience
3. she is trying to explain to herself and others what has happened
4, she is trying to find a theory within the scientific community that explains what she has just experienced without actual accepting a supernatural reason for it.

The idea was present what she experienced and see how a scientist would work this out using there ideas of Physics theory.
From there I could get ideas about what she would consider possible reasons for what she experienced, and what would others reactions be.

I think the third point was answered, by both the poster and yourself. These sceientists wouldn't react well. It would be best to play it out in the manuscript that no matter how much she tries to explain it in scientific terms here scientific friends can not believe what she contends to be truth based on her experience.
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Re: I am a bit ticked at people with no imagination!

Post by wilderness » August 12th, 2011, 7:55 pm

GK has a point there.

One thing I've been learning the hard way is whenever you ask for feedback on your work or, in this case, your ideas you should be as clear as possible about the type of feedback you are looking for. I always get frustrated when I ask my husband to read something, and I have some specific questions in mind, and he sets about tearing apart something else entirely (often a part that is still rough and needs work). So I have learned (am still learning, really) to be more clear up front about where I am in the process and what I am looking for.

Not that you shouldn't vent if you need to!

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Re: I am a bit ticked at people with no imagination!

Post by GKJeyasingham » August 12th, 2011, 8:32 pm

washingtonwriter1968 wrote:@ GKJeyasingham
OK Let me explain.
1.MY MC isn't a believer in the Supernatural.
2. she has just had a supernatural Experience
3. she is trying to explain to herself and others what has happened
4, she is trying to find a theory within the scientific community that explains what she has just experienced without actual accepting a supernatural reason for it.

The idea was present what she experienced and see how a scientist would work this out using there ideas of Physics theory.
From there I could get ideas about what she would consider possible reasons for what she experienced, and what would others reactions be.

I think the third point was answered, by both the poster and yourself. These sceientists wouldn't react well. It would be best to play it out in the manuscript that no matter how much she tries to explain it in scientific terms here scientific friends can not believe what she contends to be truth based on her experience.
I think I kind of understand it better now. However, I kind of agree with that guy from the physics forum (aside from the apparent aggressiveness and all). Speaking from a scientist's perspective, it doesn't seem believable that your logical and science-minded MC would come up with your theory (parallel universes with a fetus/womb relationship). Parallel universes, maybe, that could be a believable hypothesis for a scientific MC to come up with, but the fetus/womb thing seems a bit of a stretch. If I was your science-minded MC, I would not come up with that hypothesis. It would sound as implausible as the supernatural event she's trying to describe. Maybe try thinking of other explanations that your MC would be more likely to believe herself? Again, the idea of parallel universes is a reasonable start - it's only how you implemented it that was a bit weird (in the eyes of a scientist).

Anyway, I apologize if I'm stepping over a line here - this isn't the point of this thread, and you didn't ask me for my criticisms. What I'm really trying to say is that writing (or rather storytelling in general) is all about letting your imagination run wild, but only within the limits of your premise. If your premise involves a super-logical MC who doesn't believe in the supernatural when it actually exists, then make sure everything about what she believes is logical, including the theories she attempts to come up with! You were right in going to science-minded people by posting that theory on a physics forum, but be prepared for the responses. In this case, despite all their aggressiveness and apparent dislike of imagination, I'd have to say they were kind of right.

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Re: I am a bit ticked at people with no imagination!

Post by polymath » August 12th, 2011, 8:42 pm

Take heart, empricists are personally offended when the cosmos doesn't spoonfeed them observable phenomena. Beyond the observable tarydon distillation are more than meets the senses natural and artifact. The tachyon miscibilis for example, where as particles shed mass and energy they accelerate to near infinite velocities far in excess of light velocity. A single infinite tachyon instance can be all places at all times. There is only need for one. Exotic dark energy and dark mass theories abound, barely observable phenomena from their indirect influences on escalating hyperinflation of the time-space continuum. And then there's the fractyon miscibilis, fractal dimensions mixed in with the tarydon, tachyon, luxon, and luton n-dimensional distillations of the origination deity.
Last edited by polymath on August 12th, 2011, 11:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I am a bit ticked at people with no imagination!

Post by Watcher55 » August 12th, 2011, 9:00 pm

Shoot, even cosmologists and theoretical physicists can't agree on what the M in M-theory stands for. If you're looking for insight from a scientist with an imagination - Brian Greene
THE ELEGANT UNIVERSE
THE FABRIC OF THE COSMOS
THE HIDDEN REALITY

He even wrote a sci-fi story - ICARUS AT THE EDGE OF TIME (lots of cool photos taken by the Hubble Telescope).

I use a tree in the forest, but I considered using the fetus analogy as well - very cool.

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Re: I am a bit ticked at people with no imagination!

Post by washingtonwriter1968 » August 12th, 2011, 11:14 pm

@GKJeyasingham

I didn't feel like you stepped over the line at all. Your points are valid
GKJeyasingham wrote:
washingtonwriter1968 wrote:@ GKJeyasingham
OK Let me explain.
1.MY MC isn't a believer in the Supernatural.
2. she has just had a supernatural Experience
3. she is trying to explain to herself and others what has happened
4, she is trying to find a theory within the scientific community that explains what she has just experienced without actual accepting a supernatural reason for it.

The idea was present what she experienced and see how a scientist would work this out using there ideas of Physics theory.
From there I could get ideas about what she would consider possible reasons for what she experienced, and what would others reactions be.

I think the third point was answered, by both the poster and yourself. These sceientists wouldn't react well. It would be best to play it out in the manuscript that no matter how much she tries to explain it in scientific terms here scientific friends can not believe what she contends to be truth based on her experience.
I think I kind of understand it better now. However, I kind of agree with that guy from the physics forum (aside from the apparent aggressiveness and all). Speaking from a scientist's perspective, it doesn't seem believable that your logical and science-minded MC would come up with your theory (parallel universes with a fetus/womb relationship). Parallel universes, maybe, that could be a believable hypothesis for a scientific MC to come up with, but the fetus/womb thing seems a bit of a stretch. If I was your science-minded MC, I would not come up with that hypothesis. It would sound as implausible as the supernatural event she's trying to describe. Maybe try thinking of other explanations that your MC would be more likely to believe herself? Again, the idea of parallel universes is a reasonable start - it's only how you implemented it that was a bit weird (in the eyes of a scientist).

Anyway, I apologize if I'm stepping over a line here - this isn't the point of this thread, and you didn't ask me for my criticisms. What I'm really trying to say is that writing (or rather storytelling in general) is all about letting your imagination run wild, but only within the limits of your premise. If your premise involves a super-logical MC who doesn't believe in the supernatural when it actually exists, then make sure everything about what she believes is logical, including the theories she attempts to come up with! You were right in going to science-minded people by posting that theory on a physics forum, but be prepared for the responses. In this case, despite all their aggressiveness and apparent dislike of imagination, I'd have to say they were kind of right.


Thank you! See I got more help here than I ever did there.
So she wouldn't say womb. Well while there I had the idea of a Macro Universe and a Micro universe.


Here is the scene synopsis of a very rough Idea only:
My MC has gone to a place where she must cross a barrier to where her loved one is. She sees a great Void of emptiness no sights, sounds or smells,the is no taste in the air in that direction, no movement of wind across her face. just a blank nothing. A strong instinct born out of eons of humans trying to stay alive tells here that if she were to try to cross that barrier she would become a nothing too. She strongly doesn't want to go into this place. But her mother is in there. Impossible she thinks to herself all the laws of physics tell her such a thing could never be. Yet she knows it is true. She follows all the Antagonists commands and the fabric of the M- Brane is torn just as My Antagonist said it would. Her love for her mother draws near the breach which seems held back like having opened a window on another universe ( picture Stargate and you get the picture), and sees a world through it just beyond the tear. It is a world like our own but different. For instance she sees a on ocean of water but no smell of salt is wafting at her. This must not be real she thinks. Yet somehow it must be. As she watches she sees things are constantly changing she notices for instance the dog playing in the surf, which had a long coat sleek coat, but now has short scraggly hair. The thought comes into her mind what is happening to my poor mother how has she changed in the short time she has been here. For a time she just stands looking and having the two very strong instincts fighting within her the instinct to survive and the instinct to try to save the one she loves. To make a long story short; While she is there she finds her mother only to have it seem that her mother is melting away. She finds herself in another situation where her mother is in danger. In essence my Antagonist Character, a being of the Macro Universe if you will, is toying with her.

So here was my thoughts upon finally saving her mother and returns and she talks with a Uncle a physics minded professor. She is doing this for two reasons she needs to think out and process her encounter, and she is trying to explain it in a way he would understand.

To help you picture what I have pictured I must use an art device such as a bowel of Fruit only my bowel has only one apple in it. Another words Our Universe is sitting in another far older and more advanced Universe.

Since you have a science background can you help me explain how this girl would explain her experience to the physics-minded professor. It is very important for my character arc to beable to show where her mind set changes from scientific to a supernatural explanation.

sorry for the length :oops:
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Re: I am a bit ticked at people with no imagination!

Post by GKJeyasingham » August 13th, 2011, 6:47 am

@washingtonwriter1968: In that case, I'd say stick with the parallel universes. You can say a universe within a universe, but calling it fetus-womb seems weird because it makes me think of something actually physically touching another thing in the same reality. You could use fetus-womb as an analogy to explain it (and I'm starting to think now that that's what you were trying to do), but make sure she thinks of it as an analogy and not an actual explanation.

You also have to consider what type of person your MC is. There are people that insist on logical explanations for everything, but there are also people who, despite being logical, think it's futile to be able to explain everything due to the limits of the mind. If your MC is the latter, she might not even come up with a theory herself and would simply believe that her mind is too simple to comprehend what happened. Also, if she's consulting an uncle with more a extensive background in physics, she might even wait for his response BEFORE coming up with a theory herself because she lacks the proper knowledge base.

Anyway, good luck with your story! Hope this helped.

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Re: I am a bit ticked at people with no imagination!

Post by Watcher55 » August 13th, 2011, 11:49 am

Ok, this is freaky. Have you been going through my legal pads? Whether it's a fetus in a womb, a bubble in a beer, or an apple in a bowl, the M-brane is one of eleven space-time dimensions. It's where our Universe interfaces with the next. If you've never read FLATLAND, I recommend that you do. You have to understand that it's a social commentary written in the late 1800's and that it might be hard to read, but if you can follow the geometric reasoning, it might help you sharpen your vision of the m-brane's - geography(?).

I think your premise so far is loaded with possibilities.

EDIT: btw it's ok to skip the preface - may be save it for last.

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Re: I am a bit ticked at people with no imagination!

Post by washingtonwriter1968 » August 13th, 2011, 2:51 pm

Watcher I promise I never have even seen you legal pads LOL! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I guess great minds are thinking alike! Please tell me this isn't your current WIP! :o
I am so glad that you get exactly what I am saying! I was beggining to think I was indeed from another Galaxy and am actually adopted by the kind elderly people that found me in a crater in a feild :P :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

No I never read Flatland but will now!

Thank you with the compliment on my premise! :D :D :D :)

Glad to know that our home world actually sent out more than one pod into the universe! ;)
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Re: I am a bit ticked at people with no imagination!

Post by CharleeVale » August 13th, 2011, 3:03 pm

Ugh. Flatland.

Forgive me for not liking it. I had to read it for math class. Not really a fan.

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Re: I am a bit ticked at people with no imagination!

Post by Chantelle.S. » August 16th, 2011, 12:33 am

washingtonwriter1968 wrote::x I have been trying to talk to some folks on a physics forum concerning my world building.
I described my idea this way. There are two realities in existence
1. Our reality(a Younger also fetal like universe living inside another)
2. My Alternate Reality(Parent Universe)
3. Separated By a M-Brane ( almost like a placental sack)
So... our reality exists within an alternate reality? Wouldn't that make our reality the alternate reality then? Or... gosh I think I'm confusing myself. No. Wait, I'm not! I getcha! Kind of like an analogy.

For this kind of thing, I wouldn't ask a hardcore science geek if this idea is plausible or not. Not because they're right or wrong, but because it's fiction. We don't NEED a scientific reason. Anne McCaffrey never explained in her Pern series how it's possible that the human species have been able to migrate to a completely new, inhabitable planet when in reality we haven't gone much further than the Milky-Way (if we even have gone further than that - I'm not clued up). It's like asking a scientist what language an alien would speak. I'm pretty sure they would tear into the movie Paul like that, too.

Point of the matter is whether it's possible to have a reality within a reality is irrelevant. While you're writing, you're god and what you say goes. Nobody ever tried to scientifically dissect exactly what component in human and animal blood it is that vampires crave and need to survive. (Okay, I have tried to figure that one out - all I've come up with is iron in human blood, but even that poses the unanswered question of 'why iron?')

You don't have to justify your world-building with people that lack imagination (and I'm not implying that scientific minds lack imagination, for the record). If it's good enough for you, then it will do.
"Description begins in the writer’s imagination, but should finish in the reader’s." -Stephen King

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Re: I am a bit ticked at people with no imagination!

Post by oldhousejunkie » August 18th, 2011, 5:20 pm

washingtonwriter1968 wrote::x I have been trying to talk to some folks on a physics forum concerning my world building.
This is your problem. I somehow don't see writers and scientists getting along too well. We're on opposite sides of the brain! it seems that you are, essentially, describing the theory that the "Ghost Hunters" postulate. That two separate worlds are running parallel to each other, or the past world running along with the present. This explains the concept of hauntings...a ghost is simply doing something that it did during it's life and that action somehow runs along with our present world.

If that's not what you are talking about, please forgive. Whatever you are trying to accomplish...it's your world, build it and don't let others talk you into believing that it couldn't happen. That's the fun part about paranormal/supernatural/fantasy fiction!

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