Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Because that novel isn't going to delay itself
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Nathan Bransford
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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by Nathan Bransford » February 4th, 2010, 12:56 am

owlandsparrow wrote:My conclusion is that the "Flashsideways" are in a separate reality, as opposed to an alternate one (like bethsbooks mentioned earlier in the thread). Juliet said "It didn't work" to Sawyer, but dead Juliet said (to Miles) "It worked." I think both are true.

I'm guessing the point of this is to experiment with questions related to destiny/fate: perhaps their destiny plays out in different ways (on island v. in LA), where a few major events still happen (i.e. maybe Locke will be healed; maybe Charlie is 'supposed to die,' as Desmond insisted in season 3), and ultimately, they'll all end up in the same place no matter what form of reality leads them there.

Also, like SXBrase mentioned, I agree that they're showing the unintended consequences of blowing up the bomb. Things have definitely changed (though subtly - Rose's calm demeanor instead of her freaked-outtedness from Season 1); it seems the world changed way before the flight ever happened (as opposed to what they assumed - that the changes started with them not crashing, and that the crash was the only thing that would change).

However: I'm wondering if your Theory #1 might have some weight to it. I don't know if it's necessarily the end of the show but I'm unconvinced that this Oceanic flight is taking place in 2004. The reason I say this is because if you look at the underwater version of the Dharmaville barracks, they look totally demolished and in ruins like they did after that huge conflict with the freighter people (Keamy, in Season 4). Before the freighter people came, it was in pretty good condition; after, and when we see it in 2007, it looks pretty banged up. That conflict took place after (and because) the flight crashed. How can they be flying over it, in disrepair (sunken or not) if a) that timeline is completely separate, and b) those events happened post-original-Flight-815 (i.e. in September 2004 they cannot be flying over barracks that got ruined in December of 2004, sunk to the bottom of the ocean somehow, and had time to grow sea-plants and all that)? My head is spinning, so sorry if this is unclear.

Basically, I think the timelines will intersect at some point, and I think the flight we saw in the premiere may happen at a later date than the original one did.

I'm also questioning who is good - unconvinced that Jacob is a good guy. I have lots of thoughts on the temple and the murky water and Sayid, but I've already written a novel here. (Sorry.) Also wondering, how did Fake Locke know Real Locke's dying thoughts? Has he been in his head for a long, long time? Or, is he able to know the thoughts of the bodies he uses as his disguises?

I love this show.
This is basically where I'm at, and I think it gets at why Desmond is on the plane. I think they're all going to make choices that lead them back to the plane, though that would of course entail bringing some of the characters back to life and a trip back to the past. But somehow I think this might end with one last flash that sends them back to the plane, and then they go on about their lives as if nothing ever happened at all.

It would be quite a Shaggy Dog ending, but the other possibilities are making my head spin.

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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by Rick Daley » February 4th, 2010, 2:45 pm

I think they are parallel dimensions, and they will not converge. Here are links to an excellent video (parts 1 and 2) that will help you visualize up to 10 dimensions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkxieS-6WuA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySBaYMES ... re=related

I think this is important to consider as we try to crack into the minds of the creators and writers of LOST. We are not dealing with a single alternate time-line, but multiple parallel dimensions. The island somehow provides the ability to travel not only back and forth through time in any one dimension, but also sideways through multiple dimensions.

The show's creators have said that the key to the story is the characters. I think fate/destiny plays a big hand in the story, and the parallel dimensions will be used to illustrate the power of fate, i.e. the characters will still meet up, and the foundations of their relationships will be similar even though the circumstances surrounding their encounters will be radically different.

I think Jacob and his nemesis are allegories to portray God and Satan, but they are not literally God and Satan. Jacob has the role of the more benevolent creator, who welcomes humanity to his domain. His nemesis is jealous of Jacob's affection for humanity; he considers them a lesser race. Jacob and his nemesis are bound by fate- Jacob is not destined to be destroyed by his nemesis, so they both know that arguing that point is moot. However, given the loophole of humanity's free will, his nemesis is free to orchestrate Jacob's death. The nemesis can't directly affect the will of a human, but he can take the shape of a dead human (Alex, Christian, Locke) and in that form he can influence someone's free will.

I think it's interesting that the "current" reality has the imploded Swan hatch, but it also has the full temple and other Others. I'm not sure what circumstances brought that about...

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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by maine character » February 6th, 2010, 4:25 am

Glad to see there's many LOST fans here. I once started a thread on a writing forum about the dramatic techniques used in LOST, and yet all they wanted to talk about was Sawyer with his shirt off. Glad to find better company here.

I really can't add much except that if you haven't seen it, one site about LOST I always refer to is Lostpedia. They clue you into things you might’ve missed, like what book Desmond was reading, and bizarre, how’d-anyone-know-that triva, like how the real life Dogen (cool guy) was born on Sept. 22, the same day the plane went down.

The best sections are Trivia, Cultural References, and Literary Techniques, and if you really want to wade into the deep end of the pool, click on Theories (under Unanswered Questions). The ideas posted there are usually quite good (if sometimes reading way too much into things).

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/LA_X,_Parts_1_%26_2

The other LOST page I check is Vossek’s “Things I Noticed” posts. Just the right balance of insight and humor.

http://darkufo.blogspot.com/2010/02/thi ... zek69.html

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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by JennaSaisPas » February 7th, 2010, 6:59 pm

This is an email I wrote to a pal after last year's season finale, and it's still sounding appropriate so far:

"I think that Jacob is the brother to Esau, as in the biblical myth. Jacob stole his brother's birthright. Esau would have been the other guy at the beginning of the episode with the reason to kill Jacob.

There is an Egyptian counterpart to that myth. Horus = Jacob and Set = Esau. In both cases, the father favored the elder Esau/Set and the mother favored Jacob/Horus. In the egyptian version, a tribunal was held - at The Island In The Middle. Much trickery was done with imitating the looks of others ("Esau" taking on the appearance of Locke).

Over years of strife, Horus/Jacob became leader, but Set/Esau was never appeased. When Horus became leader, he had Set brought to his side "as his son and he shall thunder in the sky and be feared." (smoke monster)

Now, the Island In The Middle is a little island in the middle of Chaos. A Cosmic Egg was laid on this Island and from this Egg hatched the Sun God. This marks the beginning of the new Pantheon of Egyptian gods, and the old ones withdraw. The new gods have the power over life and death (Richard Alpert sure does live a while).

Now this is also the Island of Enchantment. When a sailor was once washed ashore on it, he was met with "a loud noise like to thunder, and the earth trembled beneath me and the trees were stricken as with tempest" , (which to me sounds an awful lot like the smoke monster, as well as the powers given to Esau/Set by Jacob/Horus). The sailor was then met by " giant serpent god with human face and arms. He wore a long beard, and his body was golden and blue" Which makes me think that the statues was not that of a crocodile, but of a serpent. After this *incident*, the sailor was allowed to leave after 4 moon cycles, after which , the island was MOVED.

Now, Sekhet-Aaru is an island in the Nile where the souls of the dead lived. (sound familiar?) This is also the place where the Sun God rose each morning. It is supposed to be VERY far out in the water and impossible to find by normal navigation techniques. (hmmmm...)

The island in the middle was also the birthplace of creation. It is also a parallel for Atlantis, which was Greek. In the middle of Atlantis, Poseidon made a fertile plain on the Island, surrounded by mountains (Dharmaville), and made a circle to protect it (sound pylons) before placing Persephone there (Juliet). Supposedly, Atlantis sank, but according to the Egyptians, it moved.

I dunno, but I'm thinking that the island is the source of creation and the gate to the underworld, protected by the gods, home of the dead. It is the source of godly power, and that power is being argued over throughout eternity by Horus and Set. Horus/Jacob just died, and Set was always kind of seen as the bad guy stopping at nothing to retain his birthright (killed Osiris, for example), so basically, Locke is really dead, and in his place is a god who has assumed his appearance, controls the smoke monster, make the dead live, and has been really pissed off for a minute - and now there's no one to control him.

Ooops.

Have fun with that. ;) "

Opinions??
-----Jenna

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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by DorothyoutsideOz » February 8th, 2010, 12:09 pm

I will be provoked if multiple seasons of Lost turn out to be a dream sequence. Since I subscribe via the String Theory and various philosophers to the multiple parallel universes understanding of time and space, my money goes there. Oh! in the reality I don't have any money. Nevermind.

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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by owlandsparrow » February 9th, 2010, 3:15 pm

Nathan Bransford wrote:
owlandsparrow wrote:My conclusion is that the "Flashsideways" are in a separate reality, as opposed to an alternate one (like bethsbooks mentioned earlier in the thread). Juliet said "It didn't work" to Sawyer, but dead Juliet said (to Miles) "It worked." I think both are true.

I'm guessing the point of this is to experiment with questions related to destiny/fate: perhaps their destiny plays out in different ways (on island v. in LA), where a few major events still happen (i.e. maybe Locke will be healed; maybe Charlie is 'supposed to die,' as Desmond insisted in season 3), and ultimately, they'll all end up in the same place no matter what form of reality leads them there.

Also, like SXBrase mentioned, I agree that they're showing the unintended consequences of blowing up the bomb. Things have definitely changed (though subtly - Rose's calm demeanor instead of her freaked-outtedness from Season 1); it seems the world changed way before the flight ever happened (as opposed to what they assumed - that the changes started with them not crashing, and that the crash was the only thing that would change).

However: I'm wondering if your Theory #1 might have some weight to it. I don't know if it's necessarily the end of the show but I'm unconvinced that this Oceanic flight is taking place in 2004. The reason I say this is because if you look at the underwater version of the Dharmaville barracks, they look totally demolished and in ruins like they did after that huge conflict with the freighter people (Keamy, in Season 4). Before the freighter people came, it was in pretty good condition; after, and when we see it in 2007, it looks pretty banged up. That conflict took place after (and because) the flight crashed. How can they be flying over it, in disrepair (sunken or not) if a) that timeline is completely separate, and b) those events happened post-original-Flight-815 (i.e. in September 2004 they cannot be flying over barracks that got ruined in December of 2004, sunk to the bottom of the ocean somehow, and had time to grow sea-plants and all that)? My head is spinning, so sorry if this is unclear.

Basically, I think the timelines will intersect at some point, and I think the flight we saw in the premiere may happen at a later date than the original one did.

I'm also questioning who is good - unconvinced that Jacob is a good guy. I have lots of thoughts on the temple and the murky water and Sayid, but I've already written a novel here. (Sorry.) Also wondering, how did Fake Locke know Real Locke's dying thoughts? Has he been in his head for a long, long time? Or, is he able to know the thoughts of the bodies he uses as his disguises?

I love this show.
This is basically where I'm at, and I think it gets at why Desmond is on the plane. I think they're all going to make choices that lead them back to the plane, though that would of course entail bringing some of the characters back to life and a trip back to the past. But somehow I think this might end with one last flash that sends them back to the plane, and then they go on about their lives as if nothing ever happened at all.

It would be quite a Shaggy Dog ending, but the other possibilities are making my head spin.
I agree, it would be quite a 'Shaggy Dog' ending. If this is the way they choose to end it, at least they're showing us what happens in that altered timeline, instead of just leaving us with "Oh yeah, and now they get on the plane as if it never happened and with no memories of each other, THE END."

A couple more observations from the premiere (we re-watched it on Saturday):
- Desmond is wearing a wedding ring on the plane
- (Random observation alert) If this is in the future (say, 2010 instead of 2004), someone in the prop department was slacking when they chose all those clunky headphones for people to listen to - you'd think there'd be at least one Ipod, or perhaps an e-reader. ;)

Are you going to open a new thread for each episode, or should we continue to post new theories/thoughts in this one?

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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by Nathan Bransford » February 9th, 2010, 5:45 pm

owlandsparrow wrote: Are you going to open a new thread for each episode, or should we continue to post new theories/thoughts in this one?
This one!

And great observation about Desmond and the wedding ring. Can't wait for tonight.

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Josin
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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by Josin » February 10th, 2010, 12:18 am

Sayid is a zombie... Sayid is a zombie... Sayid is a zombie...

:-P

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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by vacuumqueen » February 10th, 2010, 1:54 am

Confused even more from tonight's LOST, I wondered where I could go online for answers. I came here first...voila! I was hoping you'd just go ahead and have Thursdays' blog posts be dedicated to LOST.
You didn't know you were the "go to" guy for all things LOST, did you?

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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by THB » February 10th, 2010, 7:27 am

JennaSaisPas, I like your theory! I don't know if it's the answer or not, but I really like it!

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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by Nathan Bransford » February 10th, 2010, 8:47 pm

Okay, so, last night. What in the heck was Ethan doing in the doctor's office??

This really throws off the idea that the bomb "fixed" things so that they could all go back to the "present." Since Ethan was on the island at the time of the original crash, it wouldn't make sense for him to be in Los Angeles at the same time. This seems to mean that the flight that didn't crash happened at a different time than the one that did, right?

Also, is it just me or have there been a lot of meaningful glances between the characters in the non-crash sequences? Between Jack and Charlie, it looked like Kate noticed Jack when she was driving away in the cab, and Kate of course took a special interest in Claire. Any chance the characters in the present actually have a memory of their past and the writers are just hiding it? The only hitch with that is that Jack didn't seem to recognize Desmond.

Any other theories?

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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by Josin » February 11th, 2010, 10:12 am

Not only is there the Desmond hick-up Jack did have a moment of deja vu with Desmond, but that could have been from him remembering the night they met running bleachers, but there was no Shannon on the plane with Boone (she stayed in Australia). There was no Michael (I'm sure it would have been difficult to show Walt as a kid again). Libbie, Ana Lucia, Eko - none of them were shown at all. Most were in the tail section, but Michael and Shannon should have been up front. If Shannon didn't get on the plane, then the time from before the crash was affected as well.

Also, Christian's body was on the plane the first time it crashed, so for the airline to lose it, or not load it, was another "before the crash" moment.

Ethan was shown as a doctor before, and he was one of the few who left the island on a regular basis (as Richard's assistant, like when they recruited Juliette), but it seems that he has an ongoing career in the hospital here. Just like the "Other" who was Jack's flight attendant on 815 is still a flight attendant. Hurley was calling himself "lucky", too. He hadn't got to the point where he thought the numbers were a curse, so maybe he was never in the psych ward or heard/saw dead people.

I loved the science teacher showing up the way he did with Kate's cabbie almost running him down, though.

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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by bethsbooks » February 11th, 2010, 3:32 pm

Wasn't the guy who took off Kate's handcuffs in the non-crash scenario also an Other in charge of guarding her and Sawyer when they were captives?

Or, am I beginning to see plots and plans where there aren't any. ;)

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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by owlandsparrow » February 11th, 2010, 3:53 pm

Nathan Bransford wrote: Since Ethan was on the island at the time of the original crash, it wouldn't make sense for him to be in Los Angeles at the same time. This seems to mean that the flight that didn't crash happened at a different time than the one that did, right?
I don't think it necessarily means that the non-crashing flight happened at a different time than the first one - perhaps it means that in the same way other people's lives are different leading up to the flight (lucky Hurley, calm Rose, Shannon staying behind), Ethan's is, too. However, you could be right about a delay in timing - the sonogram Claire was looking at said "10-22-2004" instead of "9-22-2004." Not sure if that's a production error or an easter egg; either way, at least we know the year. If the flight happened in October instead of September, perhaps it was one of those cases where Ethan was off-island at the time (like the time we saw him on the mainland before).

Thinking of Ethan led me to a thought about the Island being underwater. His presence in the hospital seems to confirm that Jughead was not the immediate cause for the Island ending up on the ocean floor. Ethan was born on the Island, and would have been there when Juliet detonated the bomb - if the Island went underwater as a result, Ethan would have died, right? Meaning he wouldn't have been around in 2004?

As for the meaningful glances, it's definitely not just you. Not only do there seem to be meaningful glances between characters, it looks like some people are having deja vu experiences on their own. I'm thinking of Jack when the plane was about to crash, Kate when she was going through Claire's bag and saw the Polaroid picture and the stuffed animal, and Kate's reaction to the name "Aaron." I'm wondering if they'll remember more and more as time goes on, or if it's merely deja vu.

Any thoughts on what it means that Sayid & Claire have been claimed/infected?

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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by maybegenius » February 11th, 2010, 5:17 pm

owlandsparrow wrote:Thinking of Ethan led me to a thought about the Island being underwater. His presence in the hospital seems to confirm that Jughead was not the immediate cause for the Island ending up on the ocean floor. Ethan was born on the Island, and would have been there when Juliet detonated the bomb - if the Island went underwater as a result, Ethan would have died, right? Meaning he wouldn't have been around in 2004?
But they evacuated the Island (at least the women and children) before detonation, correct? So it's entirely possible that Ethan and his mother were on the submarine that got away from the Island, and never returned (either because the Island sank due to the blast or for some other reason). Which would mean Miles made it off the Island, as well.

We never did find out why women who got pregnant on the Island died after the "incident," did we? Obviously that wasn't always the case.

There are definitely connections happening among the Losties. Jack did recognize Desmond, but it's unclear from where. Sawyer helping Kate escape, Charlie saying he was "supposed to die," Boone and Locke having a moment on the plane, Locke and Jack, Kate and Claire... there's obviously something more going on. Like they're feeling echoes of their other life.

Personally, I think the "infection" that has apparently gotten into Claire and Sayid is less and infection and more of a possession. Something from the dark part of the Island that either drives them insane or guides them to do its will.
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