The Dark Protagonist

[Down the well]

I recently tried and failed to read The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo by Stieg Larson. The style/voice didn't do it for me, but I was still intrigued by the book's enormous popularity. Taking a short-cut, I rented the movie (Swedish version) to find out what all the buzz was about. And I have to say, Lisbeth Salander is one of the darkest protagonists I've come across in a while. She murders, rapes, and steals, and yet I couldn't help but feel sorry for her. She is such damaged goods, but because Larson provides legitimate reasons for the things she does I was able to accept her as a protagonist worthy of sympathy -- even cheering her on at one point.

The protagonist in my WIP isn't nearly so dark, but she can be coldhearted at times. I've tried to work in some vulnerability -- personal demon stuff -- to balance her toughness, but I'm curious what others do in this situation.

Do you have a dark protagonist? If so, how do you make them a sympathetic character that people will like?

[dios4vida]

My WIP has three protagonists, all of whom are troubled and somewhat dark. Their entire goal (in a nutshell) is genocide. Granted, this isn't a "goodly" race and ridding the world of them would be a good thing, but in order to kill them many, many innocents have to die alongside them. One of my characters is one of the innocents that would die in the genocide, another has been trained from birth to kill them, the third is a moralless sellsword. It's obviously much more complicated than that, but you get the idea.

I'm balancing the darkness inside of them by giving them legitimate reasons, previously mentioned, but also making them really ponder the justice of their actions. There's doubt, arguements, and personal evolution even as they move closer to their goal. Their mutual hate for each other feeds their motivations, but being forced to work together makes them see the other as less of an enemy. The darkness in their hearts and minds is considered and either rejected or embraced (I can't give away the ending, now can I?).

Dark protagonists are really difficult to manage, but I think the key is to make them dark with purpose. Most villians really think they're the good guys, and I think if you have a murdering protag, they have to believe their murders are for the greater good (or at least that they don't matter in the great scheme of things). They have to have something redeeming about them, or some pain/issue in the past that the reader can identify with. Otherwise they'll be too bad to handle.

[Down the well]

I can't give away the ending, now can I?

Yes, you can. Tell me NOW. In all seriousness, this sounds really interesting, and you've obviously thought about this before.

Dark protagonists are really difficult to manage, but I think the key is to make them dark with purpose. Most villians really think they're the good guys, and I think if you have a murdering protag, they have to believe their murders are for the greater good (or at least that they don't matter in the great scheme of things). They have to have something redeeming about them, or some pain/issue in the past that the reader can identify with. Otherwise they'll be too bad to handle.

Yes, I agree. Though my protag is capable of violence (and in fact has committed atrocities during wartime), I'm trying to give her small moments where her compassion for those less fortunate can shine through. And love. There is the capacity for that in her, too.

Thanks for your input.

[Remus Shepherd]

I have a dark protagonist in my last novel. I made her as sympathetic as possible by revealing that others intentionally drove her insane, and that she feels remorse for her impetuous murders.

It's still a very difficult book to sell. I had one agent say that they're 'just not enthusiastic enough about the premise' to represent the book. I hope that changes with the success of Stieg Larsson's books...it would be nice if agents were willing to take more risks, now and then.

[dios4vida]

I can't give away the ending, now can I?

Yes, you can. Tell me NOW. In all seriousness, this sounds really interesting, and you've obviously thought about this before.

Dark protagonists are really difficult to manage, but I think the key is to make them dark with purpose. Most villians really think they're the good guys, and I think if you have a murdering protag, they have to believe their murders are for the greater good (or at least that they don't matter in the great scheme of things). They have to have something redeeming about them, or some pain/issue in the past that the reader can identify with. Otherwise they'll be too bad to handle.

Yes, I agree. Though my protag is capable of violence (and in fact has committed atrocities during wartime), I'm trying to give her small moments where her compassion for those less fortunate can shine through. And love. There is the capacity for that in her, too.

Thanks, Down the well!! It's encouraging to hear that others get intrigued by my stories, especially since I've been hearing lots of 'no's in queryland lately.

I think you've got a good handle on your dark protag. Having the capacity for love, or at least sympathy, is pretty crucial to making them identifiable to your reader. Run with this idea, cause it sounds good!! :)

[Down the well]

I'm balancing the darkness inside of them by giving them legitimate reasons, previously mentioned, but also making them really ponder the justice of their actions

I've been mulling this over quite a lot. It seems like we'll root for a dark protagonist if they are able to assess what they've done, or must do, against the backdrop of a moral code. As long as we believe they're redeemable or at least want to change we can have sympathy for them.

I have a dark protagonist in my last novel. I made her as sympathetic as possible by revealing that others intentionally drove her insane, and that she feels remorse for her impetuous murders.

It's still a very difficult book to sell. I had one agent say that they're 'just not enthusiastic enough about the premise' to represent the book. I hope that changes with the success of Stieg Larsson's books

I think a dark FEMALE is always going to be a hard sell. My MC was much darker in my first draft. I've pulled back considerably, knowing she needed to soften up a bit to be more likable. I'm thinking no one will care what she does if they don't like her first.

[Emily J]

I'm not sure that I buy that a dark female protag is a harder sell than a dark male protag. Could just be the uber feminist in me but I call shenanigans.

I think the secret to having sympathetic dark characters is that their actions and motivations have to be understandable. They can't just be killing kittens for giggles. There needs to be a real and persuasive reason why they are the way they are and why they do the things they do. It doesn't mean their actions have to be justified, just understandable. I believe Orson Scott Card writes somewhere about how knowing something, understanding something is very close to loving something. If we understand their motivations and can sympathize at least a little with their reasoning, then we can go along with them for the ride. Even if they are killing kittens (but you know, that kitten killed my sister).

Of course I need to believe that a dark female MC is acceptable. My current WiP is a YA fantasy series which is less of a heroine's journey than it is the journey from heroine to villainess. My MC does not have a dark or tragic past, but the events that occur throughout the series shape her into a dark, unforgiving person.

So yeah, I hope I'm not totally screwed with that.

[dios4vida]

If we understand their motivations and can sympathize at least a little with their reasoning, then we can go along with them for the ride. Even if they are killing kittens (but you know, that kitten killed my sister).

Could not agree more!!!

My current WiP is a YA fantasy series which is less of a heroine's journey than it is the journey from heroine to villainess. My MC does not have a dark or tragic past, but the events that occur throughout the series shape her into a dark, unforgiving person.

So yeah, I hope I'm not totally screwed with that.

That sounds really cool, Emily J!! I like that premise a lot. :)

[Down the well]

I'm not sure that I buy that a dark female protag is a harder sell than a dark male protag. Could just be the uber feminist in me but I call shenanigans.

Ha! I like shenanigans. But I do think it is harder to like a dark female protag. A man can be a sadistic serial killer in fiction, but if he can cook a mean plate of fava beans and serves it with some chianti we'll happily sit down and eat dinner with him. Perhaps because we're more accepting of aggression, brooding, and violence in men? I don't know.

With Lisbeth Salander I didn't feel sympathy for her until she was attacked unprovoked. Until she became a victim. I think the author knew that was what it was going to take to get me to care about someone so anti-social. Of course this is one isolated example, and maybe has nothing to do with gender at all. Anyway, I hope I'm wrong. It should be, and probably is, more about the writing and the story.

[polymath]

A large part of Hannibal Lecter's empathy appeal comes from his responses to social injustices. Evil though he is, he punishes evil according to a universal, rigid moral code, and he's hypersensitive to uncalled for negative evaluation, especially when directed toward people he has an affinity for. He's also self-sacrificing while self-serving. In Hannibal Rising Lecter's causal evil origins are depicted.

A female dark protagonist, antiheroine, sympathetic villainess, possesses similar traits. Electra, the classic Greek myth princess who plotted against her mother and stepfather for their murder of her father, Medea, another mythical Greek personage, are classic examples of dark protagonists. However, female dark protagonists are exceedingly rare in contemporary literature. Lots of wide open potential for originality there though. Jung's Electra Complex archetype, desire to dominate or kill mother or mother surrogates and mate with father or surrogate male authority figures, is at the core of the psyche of women with unhealthy daddy approval issues.

[Down the well]

A large part of Hannibal Lecter's empathy appeal comes from his responses to social injustices. Evil though he is, he punishes evil according to a universal, rigid moral code, and he's hypersensitive to uncalled for negative evaluation, especially when directed toward people he has an affinity for. He's also self-sacrificing while self-serving. In Hannibal Rising Lecter's causal evil origins are depicted.

It wasn't his cooking?

Actually, I think it's one of the Maass books that points out that even something as simple as Lecter wanting a window in his cell is enough to make him human to us. He still gives me the creeps, though -- Lecter, not Maass. :)

However, female dark protagonists are exceedingly rare in contemporary literature. Lots of wide open potential for originality there though.

I'm thinking she might be more acceptable in fantasy. I don't read a lot of the high fantasy, like what they're discussing in a different thread, but I would bet there are some dark female protags in some of those books. I know there's lots of sword-wielding female demon slayers out there, though I don't know how dark and brooding and murderous they are.

[dios4vida]

I don't read a lot of the high fantasy, like what they're discussing in a different thread, but I would bet there are some dark female protags in some of those books. I know there's lots of sword-wielding female demon slayers out there, though I don't know how dark and brooding and murderous they are.

R.A. Salvatore's Forgotten Realms series has the best evil females you'll ever meet. Some would argue they aren't protags, but they're in enough books and have enough POV moments for me to consider them major players in the books.

The race of dark elves is a matriarchal society who worship Lolth, the Goddess of Chaos. The matron mothers constantly battle each other for the position of their Houses, with no holds barred. Every third-born son is sacrificed to Lolth, they regularly torture those that are still alive, and there's no end to the schemes, assassinations, and backstabbing. It's a dark, twisted, and beautiful thing.

Terry Goodkind also has great evil women - they're taken as children and tortured until all humanity and compassion is ripped out of them. In order to "graduate" and earn their whips they have to torture their own father to death. It's pretty hard to read but you feel so badly for those women! Even when they're about to kill the hero, you're crying for them. It was amazing how he did that.

So yeah, there's some evil women in high fantasy. :)

[Emily J]

From what I remember of my psych classes the Electra complex has pretty much been labeled an outdated sexist philosophy developed by men who viewed women as inferior (I have mentioned before about my neo-feminist tendencies - no lie). As such, I would be hesitant to use it to explain the female psyche (especially to women, lol). Granted I am someone who has always found Freud to be full of it... (and from what I remember, the Electra complex was based on Freud's theories).

I agree that there seem to be more examples of dark female characters (protag or otherwise) in high fantasy. Does this mean my YA urban fantasy is unique? *is hopeful*

Though I suppose a lot of times with dark characters, the idea is to redeem them, moving them from a tragic past into a brighter future. With the series I am working on it is just the opposite, a nice normal girl gets all messed up from a series of terrible ordeal and starts down the path to evil, from which she will never return. Uplifting eh?

But I am thoroughly enjoying the discussion. I love badass women in lit so I suppose it isn't surprising they pop up often in my writing. But I suppose I just enjoy dark protagonists of either gender. Give me Batman over Superman any day :)

[steve]

The hero of Cormac McCarthy's "Child of God" is a murderous, cross-dressing, necrophiliac.

Might help to read it.

[dios4vida]

With the series I am working on it is just the opposite, a nice normal girl gets all messed up from a series of terrible ordeal and starts down the path to evil, from which she will never return. Uplifting eh?

Emily J, this description of your character's path made me think of Mac in Karen Marie Moning's Fever series (awesome urban fantasy, if you haven't read it). She starts out as a girly-girl, sunshine-and-rainbows Southern girl and slowly transforms into a black leather, bad-ass, supernatural creature killer. It's really awesome.