Beta Basics

[Quill]

How have you all found readers and what is your working arrangement with them?

[I'm new at the whole idea of beta readers (I've had friends read and comment, is all), but I'll soon need some serious feedback for my current work in progress.]

Questions:

Is local better or can beta work be as effectively done long distance?

Is a writer better or can beta work be effectively done with a non-writer?

If the beta is a writer, is it normal to exchange the service? And if the beta is not, what is the compensation (a bottle of wine, a dinner, a mention in the acknowledgment page of your published book? What else?)

Is it important that the beta, if a writer, write in the same genre? If not a writer is it important that the beta reads in the same genre?

How important is it that the beta, if a writer, is at the same level of writing as you?

How to evaluate compatibility with a potential beta? Give or exchange a few pages first? Have a long chat about life values (grin) ?

How to establish parameters of beta work? Maybe we're just going for a reality check this time, or, please line edit...

Do you use a list of questions, like, how did you find the main character? How about the pace? Did the conflict build quickly enough?

How many betas are sufficient? Ideal?

How many rounds of reading do you put your beta through? Do you begin with the rough draft? The first revision?

Any other tips to help the process be happy and productive are much appreciated!

[gonzo2802]

Hey Quill,

I actually posted something along those lines today on my blog.

Here are a couple of the things that have worked for me so far.

-- Before getting any betas I would determine what you want from them first. It's a lot easier to find people who are willing to give you their overall impressions, point out any areas they really don't care for, pick up on plot holes, alert you to passive voice (or in my case, a complete overuse of ellipses). Not everyone has the time to devote to helping someone with a line edit of an entire ms, so it's best to let them know before they agree to help if that's what you're looking for.

-- Most of my betas are local, but my most recent is actually a fellow poster on this board. I'm from the States and she lives in Australia. As long as both parties have a computer and an internet connection the distance thing is all personal preference.

-- I would suggest a mix of writing and non-writing beta readers. As writers, we sometimes tend to get caught up on the smaller things that non-writers may not notice. So it's good, I think, to get both perspectives.

-- The important thing is to find people you trust to understand the meaning of an honest critique. People who are too nice to say anything, because they're worried it might hurt your feelings aren't going to help you out in the long run. But don't set yourself up with someone who's overly brutal if you need a better mixture of the good & the bad when receiving a critique.

-- I don't think that the writer has to write in that genre in order to be a good beta. They just have to be somewhat familiar with it and enjoy it enough to make their way through a full ms. It does no good if you want someone to read your western if they can't stand it.

Overall, with my betas I gave them the manuscript and let them have a go at it. I want to get their honest reactions first, and then I'll ask them specific questions after that. Most of the time you'll find the things YOU are focusing on aren't the same things that are detracting from the story from the reader's perspective.

Good luck!

[Holly]

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[Holly]

http://sff.onlinewritingworkshop.com/

I found this sci-fi/fantasy/horror critique website while I was doing agent research (several agents mention it on their blogs). It costs $49 a year, is password protected, you retain all the rights to your work, and you can pull your work off anytime. I posted the first three chapters from my novel and received outstanding feedback.

Right now I’m revising a novel that’s about 90,000 words. I don’t have a one-on-one with a beta reader, and wish I did. All those items on your list look great, but for me, it’s more a matter of who I can dig up out of the garden patch.

My readers:
(1) A good friend who doesn’t write, but points out common sense flubs.
(2) Five writers in my once-a-month writing group. Some are professionals, some aren't. We critique four pages, which is good but really limited.
(3) An elderly friend across the country who exchanges chapters by email and who (cough, cough) isn’t a good writer… I take out all the swear words before I send anything, so you get the picture…
(4) An editor/writer friend I paid to read the whole thing. Her feedback was good, but she’s a literary/non-fiction type, and my stuff is informal sci-fi/fantasy, so we’re at odds there. I just wanted a professional set of eyes to look at my work.

The best reader is another writer who understands the craft, reads and enjoys your genre or area, and is both honest and encouraging. I like praise as much as the next person, but I want someone who will point out problems (and knows enough to recognize them).

Good luck!

[Scribble]

The best reader is another writer who understands the craft, reads and enjoys your genre or area, and is both honest and encouraging. I like praise as much as the next person, but I want someone who will point out problems (and knows enough to recognize them).

Good luck!

Completely agree with you Holly.

I've been wondering how you find good beta readers, they seem as rare as gold dust.

I'm pretty new and only have a line editor beta reader. But they're a non-writer and don't like the any of the genres I write in(MG, YA, fantasy and horror), so all I get is grammar and sentence structure advice. Don't get me wrong, I'm grateful and the advice is still great, but when you're as raw as I feel I am, I think I need big picture readers.

[Quill]

Hey Quill,

I actually posted something along those lines today on my blog.

Wow. I went over and read it, and the comments. Very interesting. And yeah, I do think family members can be betas. I believe Stephen King's primary beta is this wife Tabitha, also a writer.

I see Blanche King also started a thread yesterday on this subject, over in the getting an agent forum, so yeah, great minds think alike!

Here are a couple of the things that have worked for me so far.

-- Before getting any betas I would determine what you want from them first. It's a lot easier to find people who are willing to give you their overall impressions, point out any areas they really don't care for, pick up on plot holes, alert you to passive voice (or in my case, a complete overuse of ellipses). Not everyone has the time to devote to helping someone with a line edit of an entire ms, so it's best to let them know before they agree to help if that's what you're looking for.

I agree. I would want a beta (or betas) for general read-through and broad-stroke critique at the revision stage of the project. I do plan on hiring a freelance editor later to get it into final, publishable shape. I wouldn't expect a beta to do copy or line editing.

-- Most of my betas are local, but my most recent is actually a fellow poster on this board. I'm from the States and she lives in Australia. As long as both parties have a computer and an internet connection the distance thing is all personal preference.

I think it is great that you have a network.

-- I would suggest a mix of writing and non-writing beta readers. As writers, we sometimes tend to get caught up on the smaller things that non-writers may not notice. So it's good, I think, to get both perspectives.

Agree. Seems the ideal would be to have one critique partner, a writer with whom one can exchange in some detail, and then a few others for general reality-check on one's work.

-- The important thing is to find people you trust to understand the meaning of an honest critique. People who are too nice to say anything, because they're worried it might hurt your feelings aren't going to help you out in the long run. But don't set yourself up with someone who's overly brutal if you need a better mixture of the good & the bad when receiving a critique.

Good points. The only betas I've ever had, on another project, were of the too-nice variety. And I wasn't smart enough to draw out of them what the flaws might be!

-- I don't think that the writer has to write in that genre in order to be a good beta. They just have to be somewhat familiar with it and enjoy it enough to make their way through a full ms. It does no good if you want someone to read your western if they can't stand it.

Overall, with my betas I gave them the manuscript and let them have a go at it. I want to get their honest reactions first, and then I'll ask them specific questions after that. Most of the time you'll find the things YOU are focusing on aren't the same things that are detracting from the story from the reader's perspective.

Good luck!

Thanks! And thanks for the feedback. I'm puttin' my wishes out to the Universe now.

[Quill]

http://sff.onlinewritingworkshop.com/

I found this sci-fi/fantasy/horror critique website while I was doing agent research (several agents mention it on their blogs). It costs $49 a year, is password protected, you retain all the rights to your work, and you can pull your work off anytime. I posted the first three chapters from my novel and received outstanding feedback.

Glad to hear this. The site looks interesting. My manuscript is just barely fantasy; I think it may be magical realism. But it's good to know places like this exist.

Right now I’m revising a novel that’s about 90,000 words. I don’t have a one-on-one with a beta reader, and wish I did. All those items on your list look great, but for me, it’s more a matter of who I can dig up out of the garden patch.

My readers:
(1) A good friend who doesn’t write, but points out common sense flubs.
(2) Five writers in my once-a-month writing group. Some are professionals, some aren't. We critique four pages, which is good but really limited.
(3) An elderly friend across the country who exchanges chapters by email and who (cough, cough) isn’t a good writer… I take out all the swear words before I send anything, so you get the picture…
(4) An editor/writer friend I paid to read the whole thing. Her feedback was good, but she’s a literary/non-fiction type, and my stuff is informal sci-fi/fantasy, so we’re at odds there. I just wanted a professional set of eyes to look at my work.

The best reader is another writer who understands the craft, reads and enjoys your genre or area, and is both honest and encouraging. I like praise as much as the next person, but I want someone who will point out problems (and knows enough to recognize them).

Good luck!

Thanks. Sounds like finding a great match in beta is like finding a compatible significant other! I had no idea, but I might have suspected. But I believe it is a worthwhile goal. I just don't know quite how to go about it. I do appreciate your feedback.

[Quill]

I've been wondering how you find good beta readers, they seem as rare as gold dust.

I'm pretty new and only have a line editor beta reader. But they're a non-writer and don't like the any of the genres I write in(MG, YA, fantasy and horror), so all I get is grammar and sentence structure advice. Don't get me wrong, I'm grateful and the advice is still great, but when you're as raw as I feel I am, I think I need big picture readers.

I agree. I need a "big picture reader," too, first and foremost. Grammar fixes and other polishing can come later, if and when the characters and main storyline pass muster.

[Holly]

http://sff.onlinewritingworkshop.com/

I found this sci-fi/fantasy/horror critique website while I was doing agent research (several agents mention it on their blogs). It costs $49 a year, is password protected, you retain all the rights to your work, and you can pull your work off anytime. I posted the first three chapters from my novel and received outstanding feedback.

Glad to hear this. The site looks interesting. My manuscript is just barely fantasy; I think it may be magical realism. But it's good to know places like this exist.

Quill, the first month on that site is free. You might try it out.