Over the line?

[Mark.W.Carson]

So.. I got some feedback on a small excerpt of my work, and I was told that a line was "risque" to the point it may be over the line. How can you tell? It's not super graphic, and requires a bit of thought to work out.

I should add, my book is YA, aimed at 15+

[Amanda Elizabeth]

It would be easier to help if you could provide the sentence. I'm not sure if you've read any of the mortal instruments books by Cassandra Clare, but she has some pretty steamy scenes.

[cheekychook]

That's hard to answer without more specific info but as a general rule it's important to remember that feedback from one person is just that---one person's opinion. So, if you've gotten this feedback from only one person, consider the feedback but don't necessarily make changes based on that one person's thoughts. If, however, several people find the same thing problematic, then you should seriously consider revamping or rewording the part that seems to be causing a problem.

[Mark.W.Carson]

Here's the line.

My protag is a 16yr old boy who is having an argument with his grandmother (who he and his mother are living with for the time being) and she is pressuring him to go to church with her.

"Kids today, hrmph," she scoffed. "No point, my foot. It cleanses your soul. Smart mouthed teenagers today. I hear your music. Bitch this and ho that. You all have no work ethic anymore, and you talk back to your elders. Lord knows you're full of impure thoughts. I should know, I clean your sheets."
"Grandma!"

[Amanda Elizabeth]

I think it's pretty funny A little TMI but really, some younger kids may not even understand what she's referring to.

[Mark.W.Carson]

That was my point entirely. You have to have that sort of mindset to take it in a bad light. The feedback I got was from my wife, though. I think it is funny, and kids that age are going through some of this stuff, so it is relevant to them, but she said it might turn her off to the writing.

It isn't FULL of these sorts of phrases. There are little funny bits here and there designed to make you chuckle, and some are of the bodily function type, but none of them are the "Ow, my balls" sort of thing.

[writersink]

When I read it, I didn't think there was anything wrong with it... but then again, it took me a second to work it out now I was concentrating on the grandma's assessment of "kids these days." You know... "bitchin' and hoein' and all that. If I gave that to people I know, they'd probably just read right over it.

[Sommer Leigh]

As a writer of YA, I found nothing inappropriate with that sentence at all. Teens aren't made of glass. Adults on the other hand...

[Mark.W.Carson]

Good to hear. I realize it is less directly crude than making a more... biological joke, however there are things about it that can be seen as a bit obscene. Everybody has different tolerances to that, I guess.

[Sommer Leigh]

Good to hear. I realize it is less directly crude than making a more... biological joke, however there are things about it that can be seen as a bit obscene. Everybody has different tolerances to that, I guess.

I would not call it obscene. I'd call it embarrassing in that good natured sort of way.

Please remember that there are no "you can't do that in YA" anymore. If it works with the story, all is fair. Sex and swearing are pretty common in YA and that's because it's pretty common to the typical young adult. The only people who are uncomfortable with it are adults who'd rather not know that teenagers are talking about and thinking about these things.

The important caveat to pushing adult boundaries is - does it make sense in the story or is it just sex for sex sake. If it doesn't have some importance to the story, it probably isn't necessary. But I think your line is pretty clean. It's just sort of embarrassing - like, you don't want YOUR grandma pointing this out! It reminds me of that scene from the movie Sixteen Candles when the grandma and grandpa corner Sam and point out that she has finally gotten "her boobies." Classic scene!

[hektorkarl]

It's a good line, and it's not crossing a line for the genre, but it might be for the character.

It seems like either a fairly unfiltered character, or a clear attempt to humiliate. This might be the intention, but sometimes when readers raise these types of issues, they're picking up on some sort of character inconsistency.

[Mark.W.Carson]

The line was fed to my wife without much context. The character is pretty brusk and dogmatic, willing to do nearly anything to make her point. She's always right, so I don't think it would be inconsistent.

However,

Thank you to everybody who posted. I feel a lot better about keeping the line, despite what my wife seems to think. Her idea of YA is pretty much centered around L.J. Smith and Harry Potter, even though a good portion of Harry Potter is really MG-> UMG.

I'm glad to know that there are things in the YA world that I can use without fear of alienating my base. There's going to be a lot of stuff that, at least for me, is pushing some boundaries, however, I'm pretty vanilla.

[Amanda Elizabeth]

I think the graphic violence in some YA books is more disturbing than that one line. I'm glad you're keeping it

[Mark.W.Carson]

Thanks... mine has some pretty graphic violence too

[polymath]

I don't think the context is on its own over some arbitrary line of moral appropriateness. I don't see the full context in terms of the foreground dramatic complication though. Grandma wants grandson to go to church, Okay. That's a want. Grandson doesn't want to go. That's opposition. Grandma tries shaming grandson into going.

As a bridging complication between other minor complications and to a larger complication, that complication could span an early, slow spot in a plot, connect things together. Since it's part of a young adult novel, though, the grandson's greatest want should be in the foreground instead of Grandma's. And Grandma wanting Grandson to go to church should be part of the opposition to Grandson's greatest want.

If the passage is too visceral, it is close to that risque mark, the same context could be managed by referring to blue magazines Grandma finds instead of washing soiled sheets, taking it down one degree, for example. However, and again, this goes more to Grandma than Grandson, the context does more strongly and artfully characterize Grandma than Grandson.