Nathan Bransford - The Forums

I am wondering about several copyright questions:

1. If you use song lyrics or tiles in a novel, how do you determine if they are open domain?

2. If in open domain, how do you give credit properly?

3. If you need permission, how/where do you obtain it?

4.If you get permission, where/how do you credit it?

5. It seems many people just *use* songs in youtube videos, including for trailers... does that require permission also?

and

6. Is this a publisher/editor/or agent duty or the writer's? (Or the writer's if they're self-pubbed)?

Thanks!

bcomet wrote:I am wondering about several copyright questions:

1. If you use song lyrics or tiles in a novel, how do you determine if they are open domain?

Research. Basically anything published after 1923 will likely be under copyright protection. However, a small number of properties lapsed in 1986 due to failure to renew copyright registration. Basically, a property in the U.S. created after 1923, renewed circa 1986 when the law changed, is protected for the creator's life span plus seventy years.

bcomet wrote:2. If in open domain, how do you give credit properly?

Running text inline, as inobtrusively as possible. On an acknowledgments page as thoroughly as possible. Both regardless of whether public domain or protected.

bcomet wrote:3. If you need permission, how/where do you obtain it?

Copyright clearinghouses handle most small properties' use licensing: individual short stories, poems, songs, etc. An agent or publisher or author for longer properties: novels, collections, books, films, television serials, etc. Recommended search terms: "Copyright clearinghouse," "how to get permission to use . . . ," "music licensing," "copyright licensing," and "ASCAP" and "BMI" for U.S. music properties, SESAC for European music properties.

bcomet wrote:4.If you get permission, where/how do you credit it?

Again, inline and on acknowledgments page, both, as above for public domain properties, except include something to the effect of "used with permission" on acknowledgments page for permission granted protected properties.

bcomet wrote:5. It seems many people just *use* songs in youtube videos, including for trailers... does that require permission also?

Yes. Though many think it's okay so long as it's not for profit. Problem is copyright piracy on YouTube is rampant and in many cases not pragmatically actionable because there's little if any deep pockets to sue for damages. YouTube has thus far maintained that the uses are user incidental and thus fair use. Infringed creators believe they're owed licensing fees. Litigation will come to a head at some time in the foreseeable future and settle the contention. Probably requiring some permission and fee schedule for anyone posting impacted properties.

bcomet wrote:and

6. Is this a publisher/editor/or agent duty or the writer's? (Or the writer's if they're self-pubbed)?

Thanks!

The writer's. Period. Though a representative may facilitate the process. Invariably, use permission costs are billed to the writer. They aren't cheap.

Thanks!!

Also bear in mind that putting other people's work in "your" novel is lazy writing. A reference to a short "hook" or title is usually okay, but anything that runs a line or more is probably best replaced by something original. (Yes, there are always exceptions to everything.)

I've heard from others who have gone through the process that it came be a huge pain, sometimes very expensive, but not always, depending on how much you are using. Depending on how you want to use it, it might be better to hold off getting permission until you've gotten the publishing deal, then explain how you want to use it with your agent/editor and see if they agree you should proceed with getting permission.

I know a lot of authors stay away from quoting anything recent because it almost immediately dates your book to the time period the song was released. If it's YA, this is a problem in that your young adults in a couple of years are unlikely to have ever heard of said band. Adult books are more forgiving.

Once you've contacted the clearinghouse (which it usually is managed by, but not always) they will usually require you to fill out a form that specifies how you are using it. This has to be filled out very specifically, and the cost is usually decided based on your use. They'll lay out how you have to use it based on the license you pay for and sometimes, but not always, how you have to credit the work. If the quote is small enough, you may be given more leeway in terms of cost. Totally up to the rights holders though.

Doug, not necessarily.
My characters are listening to music in a number of scenes. I thought it would also be fun to include a playlist with this particular work. Exploring this. But would change it if needed. No problemo. But, like many writers, it is kind of fun to share what segues when it feels right-on.
I did write another novel where the characters made up all the lyrics (they were musicians) and that was fun too.

Sommer,
I agree. Until it is near or in that stage, this is preliminary, but I thought it would be good to get a grasp on how it works ahead.

Thank you both for your comments. When the conversation opens and information and opinions are shared, I always learn from it.

Are there rights issues for mentioning the names of bands but not quoting lyrics? Assuming it's not in a defamatory context of course. Having a character listening to a particular record in a scene, or having a concert T-shirt on, things like that?

bcomet wrote:Doug, not necessarily.
My characters are listening to music in a number of scenes. I thought it would also be fun to include a playlist with this particular work. Exploring this. But would change it if needed. No problemo. But, like many writers, it is kind of fun to share what segues when it feels right-on.
I did write another novel where the characters made up all the lyrics (they were musicians) and that was fun too.

Sommer,
I agree. Until it is near or in that stage, this is preliminary, but I thought it would be good to get a grasp on how it works ahead.

Thank you both for your comments. When the conversation opens and information and opinions are shared, I always learn from it.

OH.

Idea just struck me in the head. I highly, strongly, super strongly recommend you email YA author Morgan Matson and ask her your question. She wrote this fantastic, out of this world book called Amy & Roger's Epic Detour. It was my favorite summer read last year. It's *filled* with playlists and band info and I *think* some lyrics if I remember correctly. Not only is it a great book, but it does exactly what you're asking about. She's also insanely nice, so I bet she'd answer your question.

There are like, a dozen playlists in that book. I built almost all of them on my iPod and to this day still listen to them.

LurkingVirologist wrote:Are there rights issues for mentioning the names of bands but not quoting lyrics? Assuming it's not in a defamatory context of course. Having a character listening to a particular record in a scene, or having a concert T-shirt on, things like that?

Not per se copyright issues, maybe trademark issues. No using a trademark, an actual graphic icon, without permission, excepting fair uses, which are tricky. Describing an icon with written words isn't, per se, proscribed, nor is using a band's name.

One concern area I run into with popular culture references not thus far mentioned: population explosion. Too many unfamilar popular culture references in quick succession without ample context can overwhelm readers.