Nathan Bransford - The Forums

Publishing house Penguin Books has filed a lawsuit against Yahoo! sports writer Adrian Wojnarowski after the writer failed to meet his deadline for a biography on former N.C. State coach Jim Valvano, The New York Post has reported.

Full article here.

Does this happen often?

Question for people writing a series; if your first book doesn't do well, is the publisher obligated to publish the remaining books?

Do you have to give the money back if they tell you to take a hike?

A publisher would have an easier time finding Bin Laden than getting a $400,000 advance back from me.

steve wrote: A publisher would have an easier time finding Bin Laden than getting a $400,000 advance back from me.

Lol.

I would guess there are all sorts of contractual loopholes built in, if the agent/author let them build them in. I'd try not to. I wouldn't let them lock me into a deadline, because the pressure alone would probably make me miss it. And if they give me money, no take-backs! I'm spending it.

Well, geez, THREE YEARS past his deadline? After the first book sale, writers have deadlines. It's reality. Writers can and do let their agents and editors know that circumstances have gotten in the way, and everyone works around the shift. BUT THREE YEARS??? Come on, man, be a little professional. I'd want the advance back too!

Mira wrote:I wouldn't let them lock me into a deadline, because the pressure alone would probably make me miss it.

Uh-oh. Houston, we have a problem. Deadlines are part of the deal if you're going to write books for a living. Professional writers know there are a few facts they have to accept. They don't get the final decision on the cover. They don't have the final say on the title. They will have a deadline, usually with part of the advance withheld until delivery of the ms.

Margo wrote:Well, geez, THREE YEARS past his deadline? After the first book sale, writers have deadlines. It's reality. Writers can and do let their agents and editors know that circumstances have gotten in the way, and everyone works around the shift. BUT THREE YEARS??? Come on, man, be a little professional. I'd want the advance back too!

Mira wrote:I wouldn't let them lock me into a deadline, because the pressure alone would probably make me miss it.

Uh-oh. Houston, we have a problem. Deadlines are part of the deal if you're going to write books for a living. Professional writers know there are a few facts they have to accept. They don't get the final decision on the cover. They don't have the final say on the title. They will have a deadline, usually with part of the advance withheld until delivery of the ms.

Well, I was sort of joking around, but I'll answer this seriously.

Margo, I think you and I are different. I don't want to write professionally and/or write for a living. I deliberately separate writing and money in my mind because I don't want practical considerations to dictate what I write. And yes, I know that means we are very different - so I'm just talking here about myself.

Given that, I would personally turn down an advance on the condition that I write a book by a certain time.

Some people may be able to write a book on demand, but I know myself and I can't. I would not want to promise something that I couldn't deliver. I know it's hard to turn down a huge chunk of money - especially if you have an agent who also has a stake in the money - but I think it's smart for an author to know their own creative process and make promises accordingly.

Mira, I don't think you get what I'm saying. I'm not talking about a difference in writing style or goals. The deadline has nothing to do with whether or not you get an advance on royalties. If a publishing house buys your book before it's written, there's a deadline whether an advance is involved or not. They have to know when they can realistically schedule the book for publication. It's a long expensive process. They can only schedule so many a year. Multi-book deals come into play, especially for fiction. The costs of developing a debut author and the risks of a one-hit wonder who will never produce another book come into play. I suppose you can tell your agent that you don't want to sell any books before you've written them. That changes the negotiations. No multi-book deals unless all the books are already complete. As a publisher, I would think twice about an author who can't handle deadlines and would have to really consider whether publishing the debut was worth it. I think I'd be more willing for non-fiction than fiction, especially genre fiction.

All assuming, of course, that you'd be going traditional publishing. Self-pubbing on Amazon, as you've brought up, looks very attractive to you and would remove the deadline issue entirely.

Mira wrote:I don't want to write professionally...

You know, I skipped right over this line. You don't want to write professionally, as in, you don't want to be published? Self-pub notwithstanding. Our conversations on and off forum had left me with the impression that you did want to publish a book. If you are just writing for the love of writing, with no concern for getting published, pretty much none of the issues we've debated amount to a hill of beans. You can write anything you want any way you want if you don't have to consider an audience beyond yourself.

On another note, I don't seem to be able to impress upon you that those of us who are oriented toward professional publication are not thinking about money all the time. We wouldn't be writers at all if money was our main concern. It's more often about a professional level of competence and the impact that has on readers. It's also about being professional in meeting industry standards and reader expectation. Again, not concerns if you are not looking to write professionally.

On another side note, forgive me if you know this already but I'm not certain, you do know there a difference between writing professionally and writing for a living, right? Cuz I'm sorta seeing you use them like you might think they mean the same thing. Most professional writers don't write for a living. [To be fair, my previous post makes them sound like they're the same thing. I assume too much about my audience.]


Edit:

Mira wrote:I don't want to write professionally and/or write for a living.

No, you do know there's a difference. So when did you decide you didn't want to write professionally?

Well, Margo, I'll definitely e-publish. I haven't decided yet if I'll try to publish traditionally - I'm keeping my options open. But if I try do publish traditionally, I come as a package deal. Which means, I'm the sensitive creative type. If that means they don't want to publish me, alrighty.

It's no real skin off my nose if they don't want to make money off my book. I'll just keep the money for myself.

This isn't personal to you, Margo, but you're very much coming from the 'company line' here. And the company line is that the author should ask how high they should jump and be deeply grateful for the opportunity to be published. What's missing from that is that the publisher NEEDS the author to survive financially. Despite what they would have you think, an author that will sell well is not easily replaced by someone else from the query pile.

So, they thought Adrian W. could make them money. They gave him money to write a book and he couldn't deliver. I think the problem here is with the advance system. They should not have given Adrian W. money until the book was done, and Adrian should not have accepted it until he was sure it could be finished.

Oh a new message - well, this is becoming a bit too much about us personally, so I'll just say that I intend to publish, and I have no interest in making a living at it. Although if I"m wildly successful and make millions of dollars, that would be okay, I won't send it back.

Yeah, Mira, I think this boils down to us having very different views and relationships to the industry. I have my issues with the industry, but I don't reject it because of those issues.

I think e-publishing would make you much happier and better suit your goals and creative methods.

I don't have an issue working within the expectations and constraints of the industry. I enjoy it.

No harm, no foul.

At the very least, our differences bring up things other people might learn from, things they perhaps never thought to wonder about.

Margo wrote:Yeah, Mira, I think this boils down to us having very different views and relationships to the industry. I have my issues with the industry, but I don't reject it because of those issues.

I think e-publishing would make you much happier and better suit your goals and creative methods.

I don't have an issue working within the expectations and constraints of the industry. I enjoy it.

No harm, no foul.

At the very least, our differences bring up things other people might learn from, things they perhaps never thought to wonder about.

Cool :)

And I read your message more thoroughly, Margo, and I never once thought you were just in it for the money. I know that writing is deeply meaningful to you - that comes through clearly your posts.

Edit: and it feels wonderful to reach a place of peace between us. I know we disagree, but I do respect you and hope you are wildly successful in your writing. :)

Mira wrote:...and it feels wonderful to reach a place of peace between us. I know we disagree, but I do respect you and hope you are wildly successful in your writing. :)

Totally reciprocal, sweets. ;P

Margo wrote:

Mira wrote:...and it feels wonderful to reach a place of peace between us. I know we disagree, but I do respect you and hope you are wildly successful in your writing. :)

Totally reciprocal, sweets. ;P

Ah! You called me sweets. :)

You know what THIS means. We're BFFs Margo. You can't get out of it now. :)

Mira wrote:You know what THIS means. We're BFFs Margo. You can't get out of it now. :)

LOL. You're brave. And willing to hang out with a bad crowd. I like that in a person.


And since I feel bad about filling up the thread with a BFF lovefest:
ALSO, on an advance-related note, I was pleasantly surprised to see that urban fantasy writer Kevin Hearne got a six-figure advance for his debut novel and two more books in his Iron Druid Chronicles, in an auction, no less. Apparently, the Frankfurt Book Fair was buzzing about these books. Lots of interest. The books will be released one per month over three consecutive months in an effort to build his name fast. I seem to recall that happening with Naomi Novik. I wonder if it's the same publishing company. Shall go look it up... Looking forward to seeing Hearne's debut...

Update: Yep, both Del Rey. I'm curious how that's been working out.

Seeking payment for an unwritten book is just borrowing money, something not to do unless strictly necessary.

J. T. SHEA wrote:Seeking payment for an unwritten book is just borrowing money, something not to do unless strictly necessary.

I have to agree with this. I wouldn't be able to spend it if someone gave me money and I hadn't written the book yet! I would be under too much pressure. I would be pooing myself in strain. The book wouldn't get written because of the "OMG if I don't write it they'll be so sad" attitude I would have.

It's sorta why I'm trying to get all three books at least outlined before submitting the first to publish. I hear they like that anyway. Even if its not written, an outline is good, because it shows you can whip them out fast and changes can be made.