Thieves and ignorance.

[Margo]

How many of you're listening music via YouTube or the net? Seriously.

A swing and a miss. All my music is CD and MP3s I paid for. I said it before, I've made a conscious choice not to do this to other types of artists.

[Guardian]

Actually I would be good with that. And do you know why? Because I know that at least the 60-75% of these people are going to buy the next one and around 50% bought that one what they read freely.

But there isn't going to be a next one. That's the point.

Who is going to determine that? A publisher won't tell me that I can't write anymore. No one can tell that. A writer is stop being a writer when the writer says so. No one else can force a writer to stop writing or even being published. And in the electronic age, there are many tricks what you can do to being published. I also have some back up plans for this case.

There is a nice example: Metro 2033 by Dmitry Glukhovsky. That novel was a free download in the first round, because no one wanted to publish it. The guy made this experiment, gathered million fans and since that time the story is a well known bestseller all around the world. There was a really good computer game adaptation with the same name two years ago. So, even from his example you can see, there is no such thing as your novel won't be published. No one can tell a writer what you can publish.

[Guardian]

How many of you're listening music via YouTube or the net? Seriously.

A swing and a miss. All my music is CD and MP3s I paid for. I said it before, I've made a conscious choice not to do this to other types of artists.

You're using the net, so it's impossible that you've not violated at least one or two rights, even unintentionally. So it's not a swing and a miss. You also have a computer. If there is only one, just one little picture or program what is not yours legally, you also committed a crime. It's the fact. In the 21st century, everyone is violating rights of others, intentionally, unintentionally, it's really matter.

[Margo]

Actually I would be good with that. And do you know why? Because I know that at least the 60-75% of these people are going to buy the next one and around 50% bought that one what they read freely.

But there isn't going to be a next one. That's the point.

Who is going to determine that? A publisher won't tell me that I can't write anymore. No one can tell that.

You're not clear on this. If you don't earn out your advance, if you fail by a wide margin (20,000 sales is a wiiiiide margin), the publishing company won't publish your next book. The next publishing company will look at your sales figures on bookscan and pass on your book because your last one didn't sell. You can write all you want, but you will have to self publish because no one will touch you again until your SALES figures come back up. THAT's the double-edged sword. The lack of sales will keep you from getting published again, so all those illegal downloaders won't have a book to buy next time.

[Margo]

You're using the net, so it's impossible that you've not violated at least one or two rights, even unintentionally.

You are seriously reaching. You absolutely can't conceive of the idea that someone doesn't steal, so now I have to be doing it unintentionally.

[Guardian]

You're not clear on this. If you don't earn out your advance, if you fail by a wide margin (20,000 sales is a wiiiiide margin), the publishing company won't publish your next book. The next publishing company will look at your sales figures on bookscan and pass on your book because your last one didn't sell. You can write all you want, but you will have to self publish because no one will touch you again until your SALES figures come back up. THAT's the double-edged sword. The lack of sales will keep you from getting published again, so all those illegal downloaders won't have a book to buy next time.

Actually I'm well aware of this. But this is what I mentioned above. IF my legit sales are depending ONLY on 20k illegal downloads, in that case I failed to write that novel properly OR the publisher made some serious error in the marketing. Take the illegal downloads aside. If you can't reach that 20k, you can't reach it even if thousands are downloading it. Do you know why? Because in that case there is a great error in the marketing and the "calling" is never reached the audience, in our case, the readers. If the illegal downloaders knows more about your novel (As they're downloading it, so they heard about it somewhere), then normal readers... well, that's a serious error in marketing.

[sierramcconnell]

You're using the net, so it's impossible that you've not violated at least one or two rights, even unintentionally.

You are seriously reaching. You absolutely can't conceive of the idea that someone doesn't steal, so now I have to be doing it unintentionally.

Ooh, let me reach.

I wonder if you've ever gone to WalMart and not gotten charged for an item and not gone back to be charged for it.

I drive back. Every. Time.

[Watcher55]

If someone is ok with downloading one book illegally, I doubt very many people, let alone 60-75%, will pay for the next one. Also, it doesn't matter how many people bought it legally after they downloaded it illegally. They still downloaded it illegally. The illegal act isn't undone by the legal one.

I've worked in marketing for few years and I rarely mistaken with numbers. Of course, I would lie if I would say, I'm okay with it. But as I can't, and personally I don't want to do anything against it, so it's fine by me. And I won't make a crusade against a ten years old, if he / she would download my novel. I rather spend the power of revenge for writing.

Oh, and just a question to all who is telling that downloading is stealing. How many of you're listening music via YouTube or the net? Seriously.

I'm asking this, because I remember for few links on this forum what you guys linked. But it seems that's different, because you did it with a product what for you have no connection at all. You all do the very same, yet you would prosecute everyone, even a 10 years old, who would download your novel. What's the difference? Nothing. Just the perspective. That's the essence.

YouTube vids are free. Many of the videos are put there for the sake of publicity. When there is infringment You Tube at least makes the attempt to purge them. I am, at this moment, listening to PandoraOne; for which I pay an annual premium.

There is a large difference between linking to a FREE video and downloading something that is supposed to be for sale.

And you know what? We're not talking about 10 year olds here. We're talking about world wise people who think they have the right to ignore society's rules just because they can.

Good luck with that. It gets you laid off, fired, and kicked half way across the states. They'll tell you /you're/ the one who's wrong. That you have a problem that needs 'fixing'.

That doesn't make it true. If the world wants to go to hell in a handbasket doesn't mean I have to go with it.

[Margo]

Ooh, let me reach.

I wonder if you've ever gone to WalMart and not gotten charged for an item and not gone back to be charged for it.

I drive back. Every. Time.

You're going to hate me, Sierra. Because I've worked retail and know what kind of trouble someone gets in if their register comes up short, I have always corrected the cashier and given the extra change back. I've never gotten home and found something I wasn't charged for. I've had the opposite happen, though, and gotten home to find a bag of groceries I paid for probably ended up forgotten on the bag carousel at a store.

[Margo]

If the world wants to go to hell in a handbasket doesn't mean I have to go with it.

Yeah, pretty much.

[sierramcconnell]

Wow, Pandora. Not only are they the highest royalty paying Internet Radio company, but they also sell their user's information to their advertisers to make ends meet because of it.

[Guardian]

You're using the net, so it's impossible that you've not violated at least one or two rights, even unintentionally.

You are seriously reaching. You absolutely can't conceive of the idea that someone doesn't steal, so now I have to be doing it unintentionally.

I'm also not stealing, but I'm also well aware that whenever you do something on the net, you can violate some laws, even unintentionally. It's not reaching, it's the fact. Same with computers and softwares.

YouTube vids are free.

YouTube is free, but the vids are already violating many copyrights. But tell it to those whose are uploading them or even linking them. For example that U2 video what you linked on this forum is not free. It belongs to U2 and it's publisher. So, mister you already violated one right, because you shared someone's intellectual property on a public channel. It's the very same.

[Watcher55]

Wow, Pandora. Not only are they the highest royalty paying Internet Radio company, but they also sell their user's information to their advertisers to make ends meet because of it.

I haven't been spammed a single time. When you pay the premium you don't get ads between songs and they don't share your information.

[Sommer Leigh]

Oh, and just a question to all who is telling that downloading is stealing. How many of you're listening music via YouTube or the net? Seriously.

Listening to music on YouTube and, depending on the site, other music sites isn't itself illegal. Considering how many uploads go up on YouTube, many videos that illegally use music or video clips are pulled for copyright violation. Many are managed by the production companies and artists themselves. With YouTube the answer is, it depends. Someone with the copyright license to use the music is legit. The fan who has made their own video out of it isn't and can be reported to YouTube. Which I do. Especially when people put a disclaimer like, "No copyright infringment intended." That drives me crazy. Other sites, like Magnatunes.com, grant the downloader certain use permissions with their membership which includes using the music in a YouTube video with the correct attributions.


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If we get back to the story I posted about, I think the most important part of this whole arguement comes down to the fact that the author almost didn't get a second book deal because she didn't earn out her first advance. If even a quarter of the illegal downloads of her book had turned around and purchased the book legally, she'd have earned out. Her new book that hasn't even been released yet is getting google searches by people already looking to download it illegally. If this happens to her again, she probably won't get a third book. So the people who she should be happy about reading her novel, whether they are 10 or 40, are going to put her out of business. I think there is a really big problem in this situation. I think the fact that there are enough people willing to defend the illegal act means something else is happening that needs some attention. My whole point for posting about this situation is because I think one of the biggest problems is that downloaders don't see what they are doing as hurting the author, they think they are hurting the publisher. Education on this is one big step that book lovers and authors and author-hopefuls can do. It's an easy step. Giving it attention is important.

Other steps? If we can't easily police the downloaders, we can at least attack the excuses and find ways to take them away by:
- Encouraging the use of libraries, especially now that many of them are allowing you to check out e-books from home.
- Getting the word out when sample chapters are posted on an author's website so that people can "Try before they buy."
- Sending letters to publishers asking them to change certain policies that keep you from buying from them.
- Clicking on the button on Amazon that sends a letter from Amazon to the publisher asking for a book to be made available for the Kindle. I assume other e-sellers have something like this? I don't know off the top of my head.
- Sending letters to Amazon and Borders and whoever else has an e-reader asking them to make it easier to buy books from lots of places.
- Sending a letter to a publisher asking for a book in another country.
- Talking about book sellers on the internet who sell internationally and give them some good press.

It really does pay off to ask for what you want instead of assuming you'll never get it. Take one excellent example: last year when several YA books were released with "white washed" covers, book lovers on the internet made a big deal about it and came down hard on the publishers. The message was clear and the book covers were recalled and redone.

[Margo]

So, mister you already violated one right, because you shared someone's intellectual property on a public channel. It's the very same.

I wouldn't be so sure of that when it's YouTube. It depends on the licensing. It would definitely be a good thing to check, though, before linking. Can you download from YouTube? I didn't know that was even possible.