Nathan Bransford - The Forums

Thanks, Mel, for your suggestions. I went with them and I feel that it reads much better. I like how this is tightened up now, but I'm feeling like it is a little bare bones. Perhaps that is how I should want it. I like the flow of the phrase"To sweeten the pot..." but maybe you can explain to me why it is better to cut it than keep it. I get what you're going for: keeping it simple and to the point to just get the agent's attention. But is it now lacking voice? I'm not sure. Still so new to this query thing.

Thanks again and hopefully a final revision:

Dear Agent,

Thirteen-year-old Griffin Tutela doesn’t believe the stories his Grandma tells him about the forest behind her house. He rolls his eyes when she says his lineage can communicate with the ancient trees, and spirits within the forest. He snickers at the idea of an invisible barrier around the wood, keeping intruders out, and the only way in is through a gateway that his family protects.

But when a beautiful woman appears to him, claiming to be a magical spirit, Griffin wonders if Grandma’s tales are true. Batting her eyelashes and speaking with candied words, she asks for his permission to enter the forest. Griffin cannot resist when she offers him a blade that can slice though anything. When Griffin lets her through the gateway, she brings her master, Dolosus, the fallen God of the underworld, who seeks a prize hidden within the forest. Immediately Griffin knows he has made a mistake.

Intending to destroy Dolosus with his new weapon, Griffin enters the forest. But he cannot use the blade against the fallen God who made it. On top of that, the inhabitants of the forest are furious with Griffin for letting Dolosus in and desire to kill him. To save his own skin, his family, and the forest, Griffin must find the High Guardian of the wood, Euphonious Brine - the very prize Dolosus is after.

EUPHONIOUS BRINE is 110,000 word YA fantasy that I have chosen to submit to you because you represent my genre (personalized blurb about agent). I am published in A Collection of Oregon’s Young Poets, have written scripts for television commercials, and belong to the Authors of the Flathead in Montana.

Thank you for your time and I look forward to hearing from you.

Sincerely,

Hillary, I did not see your post until after I revised it (yet again). SO now I shall take your comments into consideration and see what I come up with. And, yeah, its long. I tend to over-write things. Not sure what to cut out yet but I'm working with a writers critique group to figure that out. Is it foolish to assume that an agent may be able to assist me with this?

Okay, I just read some of your suggestions and now i'm getting the feeling I'm going around in circles. I cut out the part about the sky turning black and the colors of the forest draining because somebody else said it wasn't neccesary. Ahh! getting too confused. I shall revise it anyway and see what seems best.

So I succeeded in cutting the word count only a bit. I tend to disagree about cutting the candied words bit. It shows effectively that she is being persuasive (like only a lady can) and it would be difficult for any boy to resist, throw in a magic blade and the deal is sealed. But I cut it anyway just to see how it reads. I decided to explain why he knows he's made a mistake. Hmmm... Does this madness ever end?

Dear Agent,

Thirteen-year-old Griffin Tutela doesn’t believe the stories his Grandma tells him about the forest behind her house. He rolls his eyes when she says that his lineage can communicate with the ancient trees, and spirits within the sacred forest. He snickers at the idea of an invisible barrier around the wood, preserving it, and the only way in is through a gateway that his family protects.

But when a beautiful woman appears to him, claiming to be a magical spirit, Griffin wonders if Grandma’s tales are true. Griffin cannot resist when she offers him a blade that can slice though anything, in exchange for entry to the forest. As he lets her through the gateway, she brings her master, Dolosus, the fallen God of the underworld, who seeks a prize hidden within the forest. The sky turns black and the vibrant colors of the wood drain and Griffin knows he has made a mistake.

Intending to destroy Dolosus with his new weapon, Griffin enters the forest, but finds he cannot use the blade against the fallen God who made it. On top of that, the inhabitants of the forest are furious with Griffin for letting Dolosus in and desire to kill him. To save his own skin, his family, and the forest, Griffin must find the High Guardian of the wood, Euphonious Brine - the very prize Dolosus is after.

EUPHONIOUS BRINE is 110,000 word YA fantasy that I have chosen to submit to you because you represent my genre (personalized blurb about agent). I am published in A Collection of Oregon’s Young Poets, have written scripts for television commercials, and belong to the Authors of the Flathead in Montana.

Thank you for your time and I look forward to hearing from you.

Sincerely,

I think that you are really close with this one. I agree with what you were saying about voice and I did like the "candied words." The problem is that this whole thing is very subjective.
Dear Agent,

Thirteen-year-old Griffin Tutela doesn’t believe the stories his Grandma tells him about the forest behind her house. He rolls his eyes when she says that his lineage can communicate with the ancient trees, you don't need a comma and spirits within the sacred forest. He snickers at the idea of an invisible barrier around the wood, preserving itIs there a better way you can say this? It sounds awkward, and the only way in is through athe gateway that his family protects.

But when a beautiful woman appears to him, claiming to be a magical spirit, Griffin wonders if Grandma’s tales are true. Griffin cannot resist when she offers him a blade that can slice though anything, in exchange for entry to the forest. As he lets her through the gateway, she brings her master, Dolosus, the fallen God of the underworld, who seeks a prize hidden within the forest. The sky turns black and the vibrant colors of the wood drain and . Griffin knows he has made a mistake.

Intending to destroy Dolosus with his new weapon, Griffin enters the forest, but finds he cannot use the blade against the fallen God who made it. On top of that, the inhabitants of the forest are furious with Griffin for letting Dolosus in and desire to kill him. To save his own skin, his family, and the forest, Griffin must find the High Guardian of the wood, Euphonious Brine - the very prize Dolosus is after.

EUPHONIOUS BRINE is 110,000 word YA fantasy that I have chosen to submit to you because you represent my genre (personalized blurb about agent). I am published in A Collection of Oregon’s Young Poets, have written scripts for television commercials, and belong to the Authors of the Flathead in Montana.

Thank you for your time and I look forward to hearing from you.

Sincerely,[/quote]

lunerunit wrote:Hillary, I did not see your post until after I revised it (yet again). SO now I shall take your comments into consideration and see what I come up with. And, yeah, its long. I tend to over-write things. Not sure what to cut out yet but I'm working with a writers critique group to figure that out. Is it foolish to assume that an agent may be able to assist me with this?

An agent can help with that, but my opinion is that submitting your first manuscript to an agent when the word count alone will show them that it will require extensive work may not make a good first impression. I'm not saying that agents are averse to work, but if an agent has three manuscripts in front of them and is considering offering representation to one author (and, saying all other things are equal in terms of quality and voice and originality), is that agent going to be more interested in the one where s/he has to convince the author to cut thirty thousand words and keep the quality and voice, or go with the one that's already the right length for the genre? Also, submitting within the standard word count shows that you have an awareness of parameters of the genre, know that it would cost a publisher significantly more to publish a 110K book over a 75K book, etc. Just my two cents...

HillaryJ wrote:

lunerunit wrote:Hillary, I did not see your post until after I revised it (yet again). SO now I shall take your comments into consideration and see what I come up with. And, yeah, its long. I tend to over-write things. Not sure what to cut out yet but I'm working with a writers critique group to figure that out. Is it foolish to assume that an agent may be able to assist me with this?

An agent can help with that, but my opinion is that submitting your first manuscript to an agent when the word count alone will show them that it will require extensive work may not make a good first impression. I'm not saying that agents are averse to work, but if an agent has three manuscripts in front of them and is considering offering representation to one author (and, saying all other things are equal in terms of quality and voice and originality), is that agent going to be more interested in the one where s/he has to convince the author to cut thirty thousand words and keep the quality and voice, or go with the one that's already the right length for the genre? Also, submitting within the standard word count shows that you have an awareness of parameters of the genre, know that it would cost a publisher significantly more to publish a 110K book over a 75K book, etc. Just my two cents...

Agree. If you already know you over-write and admit that you are working on figuring out what to cut, then you are basically not ready to query. It isn't wise to throw it out there hoping to attract an agent willing to help you pare it down. Especially 20-30K words, which is a substantial revision. Most agents are looking for ready-to-publish works or needing relatively minor editing. Best is to make it as good as you can possibly make it before submitting.

I think this is very good. I agree with others, if you think your manuscript needs work, it's probably best to do the work before submitting to an agent.
Dear Agent,

Thirteen-year-old Griffin Tutela doesn’t believe the stories his Grandma tells him about the forest behind her house. He rolls his eyes when she says that his might add the word family lineage can communicate with the ancient trees, and spirits within the sacred forest. He snickers at the idea of an invisible barrier around the wood, preserving it consider a period here, and He scoffs at the notion - you see what I'm doing? the paralell structure the only way in - perhaps say the only way to enter is through a gateway that his family protects.

But when a beautiful woman appears to him, claiming to be a magical spirit, Griffin wonders if Grandma’s tales are true. Griffin cannot resist when she offers him a blade that can slice though anything, in exchange for entry to the forest. As he lets her through the gateway, she brings her master, Dolosus, the fallen God of the underworld, who seeks a prize hidden within the forest. The sky turns black - consider a comma here rather than and and the vibrant colors of the wood drain and Griffin knows he has made a mistake.

Intending to destroy Dolosus with his new weapon, Griffin enters the forest, but finds he cannot use the blade against the fallen God who made it. Good lots of info and quite smooth On top of that, the inhabitants of the forest are furious with Griffin for letting Dolosus in and desire to kill him. To save his own skin, his family, and the forest, Griffin must find the High Guardian of the wood, Euphonious Brine - the very prize Dolosus is after.

EUPHONIOUS BRINE is 110,000 word YA fantasy that I have chosen to submit to you because you represent my genre (personalized blurb about agent). I am published in A Collection of Oregon’s Young Poets, have written scripts for television commercials, and belong to the Authors of the Flathead in Montana.

Thank you for your time and I look forward to hearing from you.

Sincerely,[/quote]

Remember it doesn't have to be perfect only good enough to get the agent interested. I really like what you have here. Good luck with it.

I guess I'd better get to cutting down the size of the novel before I send the query then. I have not mentioned that this is part one and there is a second book (in the works). Is that something I should be up front about in the query? I realize this book should be able to stand on its own without the sequel.

Might be splitting hairs now, but it got a little longer. I understand paralell structure, but I'm not sure I like the flow of the first paragraph now. Threw the candied words back in - not sure about that either.

This is really awesome to have such great feedback and genuine interest! Wow! Thanks Mel, HillaryJ, Quill, Gee Gee 55, Rainbowsheeps, Ink, Shadow, Ceiser, and anyone else that has helped.

Dear Agent,

Thirteen-year-old Griffin Tutela doesn’t believe the stories his Grandma tells him about the forest behind her house. He rolls his eyes when she says his family can communicate with the ancient trees and spirits within the sacred forest. He snickers at the idea of an invisible barrier around the wood. He scoffs when he hears the only way to enter is through a gateway his family protects.

When a beautiful woman appears to him, claiming to be a magical spirit, Griffin wonders if Grandma’s tales are true. Batting her eyelashes and speaking candied words, she offers him a blade that can slice though anything, in exchange for entry to the forest, and Griffin cannot resist. But as he lets her pass, she brings her master, Dolosus, the fallen God of the underworld, who seeks a prize hidden within the forest. The sky turns black, the vibrant colors of the wood drain, and Griffin knows he made a mistake.

Intending to destroy Dolosus with his new weapon, Griffin enters the forest, but finds he cannot use the blade against the fallen God who made it. On top of that, the inhabitants of the forest are furious with Griffin for letting Dolosus in and desire to kill him. To save his own skin, his family, and the forest, Griffin must find the High Guardian of the wood, Euphonious Brine - the very prize Dolosus is after.

EUPHONIOUS BRINE is 110,000 word YA fantasy that I have chosen to submit to you because you represent my genre (personalized blurb about agent). I am published in A Collection of Oregon’s Young Poets, have written scripts for television commercials, and belong to the Authors of the Flathead in Montana.

Thank you for your time and I look forward to hearing from you.

Sincerely,

Lune Axelsen

Okay, I think you're really close. I liked the first paragraph better in the previous version. What bugs me about the new one is the three consecutive sentences starting with "He". I like that the "candied words" is back in b/c it gives it voice. But I would re-consider the long sentences in that paragraph, as they are all compound and there are lots of commas. Again, I don't think either is a really big issue. If you haven't, read it outloud to hear how it flows or even better, have someone else read it outloud to you. But overall, I think this is a great query. Good luck with it. Keep us posted when you start submitting :)
--mel

I took a little sabbatical from this query and have come back with fresh eyeballs. I think I like this one. I've been shaving a little content off my book, but I got to thinking: YA books are pretty long these days, especially fantasy (Eragon, Harry Potter, Artemis Fowl, I could go on). Do I really need to chop 30,000 words? I don't think I want to.

Thanks again everyone. And Mel, I will definately keep you all posted. Now maybe I can start offering my suggestions to others.

What do you think?

Dear Agent,

Thirteen-year-old Griffin Tutela doesn’t believe the stories his Grandma tells him about the forest behind her house. He rolls his eyes when she says his family can communicate with the ancient trees and spirits within the sacred forest. An invisible barrier supposedly exists around the wood and he snickers when he hears the only way to enter is through a gateway his family protects.

But when a beautiful woman appears to him, claiming to be a magical spirit, Griffin wonders if Grandma’s tales are true. Batting her eyelashes and speaking candied words, she asks permission to enter the forest. Griffin cannot resist when she offers him a blade that can slice though anything. As he lets her pass, she brings her master, Dolosus, the fallen God of the Underworld, who seeks a prize hidden within the forest. The sky turns black, the vibrant colors of the wood drain, and Griffin knows he made a mistake.

Intending to destroy Dolosus with his new weapon, Griffin enters the forest, but finds he cannot use the blade against the fallen God who made it. On top of that, the inhabitants of the forest are furious with Griffin for letting Dolosus in and desire to kill him. To save his own skin, his family, and the forest, Griffin must find the High Guardian of the wood, Euphonious Brine - the very prize Dolosus is after.

EUPHONIOUS BRINE is 110,000 word YA fantasy that I have chosen to submit to you because you represent my genre (personalized blurb about agent). I am published in A Collection of Oregon’s Young Poets, have written scripts for television commercials, and belong to the Authors of the Flathead in Montana.

Thank you for your time and I look forward to hearing from you.

lunerunit wrote:I took a little sabbatical from this query and have come back with fresh eyeballs. I think I like this one. I've been shaving a little content off my book, but I got to thinking: YA books are pretty long these days, especially fantasy (Eragon, Harry Potter, Artemis Fowl, I could go on).

The first Eragon book: 509 pages (150k+ words)
The first Harry Potter book: 309 pages (80k-90k)
The first Artemis Fowl book: 280 pages (75k-85k)

Do I really need to chop 30,000 words? I don't think I want to.

Don't, then, but make sure that every word counts.

Thirteen-year-old Griffin Tutela doesn’t believe the stories his Grandma tells him about the forest behind her house. He rolls his eyes when she says his family can communicate with the ancient trees and spirits within the sacred forest.

This is fine.

An invisible barrier supposedly exists around the wood

This change in viewpoint and tone is a bit disconcerting. "Supposedly" is a weak adverb doing little work, is vague, and begs the question "according to whom?"

and he snickers when he hears the only way to enter is through a gateway his family protects.

He's sounding a little demented, actually, here. Isn't any of this verifiable or demonstrable? Don't his family show him?

But when a beautiful woman appears to him, claiming to be a magical spirit, Griffin wonders if Grandma’s tales are true. Batting her eyelashes and speaking candied words, she asks permission to enter the forest. Griffin cannot resist when she offers him a blade that can slice though anything. As he lets her pass, she brings her master, Dolosus, the fallen God of the Underworld, who seeks a prize hidden within the forest. The sky turns black, the vibrant colors of the wood drain, and Griffin knows he made a mistake.

This is okay. I did get caught on "the vibrant colors of the wood drain"; it made me wonder if there was a wooden drain pipe of some sort in your story.

Intending to destroy Dolosus with his new weapon, Griffin enters the forest, but finds he cannot use the blade against the fallen God who made it. On top of that, the inhabitants of the forest are furious with Griffin for letting Dolosus in and desire to kill him. To save his own skin, his family, and the forest, Griffin must find the High Guardian of the wood, Euphonious Brine - the very prize Dolosus is after.

This is pretty good.

EUPHONIOUS BRINE is 110,000 word YA fantasy that I have chosen to submit to you because you represent my genre (personalized blurb about agent). I am published in A Collection of Oregon’s Young Poets, have written scripts for television commercials, and belong to the Authors of the Flathead in Montana.

On the subject of word count, it is sounding like a pretty simple story, almost a fairy tale. I wonder if an agent will wonder why it is so long. You have the snickering, the encounter with the woman, and then the trip into the forest. Can you at least allude to some of the complications? How big is this forest behind his house, anyway? Where is this forest, in Oregon?

I like this version. I think it's clear and concise and has voice. Good luck!!

lunerunit wrote:I took a little sabbatical from this query and have come back with fresh eyeballs. I think I like this one. I've been shaving a little content off my book, but I got to thinking: YA books are pretty long these days, especially fantasy (Eragon, Harry Potter, Artemis Fowl, I could go on). Do I really need to chop 30,000 words? I don't think I want to.

Thanks again everyone. And Mel, I will definately keep you all posted. Now maybe I can start offering my suggestions to others.

What do you think?

Dear Agent,

Thirteen-year-old Griffin Tutela doesn’t believe the stories his Grandma tells him about the forest behind her house. He rolls his eyes when she says his family can communicate with the ancient trees and spirits within the sacred forest. An invisible barrier supposedly exists around the wood and he snickers when he hears the only way to enter is through a gateway his family protects.

But when a beautiful woman appears to him, claiming to be a magical spirit, Griffin wonders if Grandma’s tales are true. Batting her eyelashes and speaking candied words, she asks permission to enter the forest. Griffin cannot resist when she offers him a blade that can slice though anything. As he lets her pass, she brings her master, Dolosus, the fallen God of the Underworld, who seeks a prize hidden within the forest. The sky turns black, the vibrant colors of the wood drain, and Griffin knows he made a mistake.

Intending to destroy Dolosus with his new weapon, Griffin enters the forest, but finds he cannot use the blade against the fallen God who made it. On top of that, the inhabitants of the forest are furious with Griffin for letting Dolosus in and desire to kill him. To save his own skin, his family, and the forest, Griffin must find the High Guardian of the wood, Euphonious Brine - the very prize Dolosus is after.

EUPHONIOUS BRINE is 110,000 word YA fantasy that I have chosen to submit to you because you represent my genre (personalized blurb about agent). I am published in A Collection of Oregon’s Young Poets, have written scripts for television commercials, and belong to the Authors of the Flathead in Montana.

Thank you for your time and I look forward to hearing from you.

I think I may be able to cut this thing down to around 90,000 words and still keep the story as it is. But there is another route I could go that would cut it down significantly, though it would pain me to do it:

The reason the story is so long is that the character Euphonious Brine, is also a main protagonist. Not only is the story told from Griffin's perspective, but hers as well. I could cut her perpective out and make her a total mystery, like the query is written, and that would cut the size down immensely. Perhaps the second book could be more about her. Don't know yet.

Thing is, her character is very complex and interesting. She's an Alien that has landed a job watching over a tree within the forest. (The tree is another character altogether.) But she has anger issues because her race was destroyed and she's the last of her kind, so she takes it out on the bad guys who try to get into her domain. She's been doing a pretty job until Griffin screws up and lets the ultimate bad guy in. Dolosus is an old foe of hers and they're gonna do battle in the end (not of this book).

As far as the query goes, I figure I want to get the Agent's attention, so I decided to not get into her character. But how do I explain why it is so long without making a giant query? I attempted to do that early on and it came out pretty bad.

Here's what I got with your suggestions Quill:

Dear Agent,

Thirteen-year-old Griffin Tutela doesn’t believe the stories his Grandma tells him about the forest behind her house. He rolls his eyes when she says his family can communicate with the ancient trees and spirits within the sacred forest. When he asks for proof, Grandma says he’s not ready, the forest is too dangerous, and she will not take him past a certain point that she calls the gateway - the entrance his lineage protects.

But when a beautiful woman appears to him, claiming to be a magical spirit, Griffin wonders if Grandma’s tales are true. Batting her eyelashes and speaking candied words, she asks permission to enter the forest. Griffin cannot resist when she offers him a blade that can slice though anything. As he lets her pass, she brings her master, Dolosus, the fallen God of the Underworld, who seeks a prize hidden within the forest. The sky turns black, the vibrant colors of the wood fade, and Griffin knows he made a mistake.

Intending to destroy Dolosus with his new weapon, Griffin enters the forest, but finds he cannot use the blade against the fallen God who made it. On top of that, the inhabitants of the forest are furious with Griffin for letting Dolosus in and desire to kill him. To save his own skin, his family, and the forest, Griffin must find the High Guardian of the wood, Euphonious Brine - the very prize Dolosus is after.

EUPHONIOUS BRINE is 110,000 word YA fantasy that I have chosen to submit to you because you represent my genre (personalized blurb about agent). I am published in A Collection of Oregon’s Young Poets, have written scripts for television commercials, and belong to the Authors of the Flathead in Montana.

Thank you for your time and I look forward to hearing from you.

I've done it! I got it down to 87,000 words so far, by cutting out the perspective of Euphonious Brine. I actually think this will work better. All I've got to do now is polish up the rough edges. Woo hoo!

I'm liking the query. And the news that you may cut to 87K words. You probably just upped your chances of getting an agent by an order or two of magnitude. I do think the other part of the story sounds interesting, but as you say, maybe it can go in the next book. Maybe you can touch upon it in this one.