Wonky email formatting issues

[cheekychook]

I've been struggling with format for the pages of my WIP that I intend to paste into my queries. My WIP is written in Word, so I've copied and pasted the first chapter into notepad, in an attempt to remove anything that may be read incorrectly elsewhere, then I have pasted the notepad version into an email. I've encountered numerous complications in doing this, and the complications vary depending on which of my own email accounts I use.

If anyone has any tips/suggestions/etc on how to avoid these problems or on a better way to handle this issue, please let me know! Thanks in advance.

Problems/questions:

Pages pasted into notepad are single spaced, including between paragraphs, which makes the multiple lines of dialogue a little tricky to read---is there a better/preferable way to format this?

Although it appear single spaced on notepad and remains single spaced when I paste it into an email account (I'm sending from gmail), once I send it to other accounts (gmail, yahoo, private account) what arrives varies tremendously---one retained the single spacing, one went to double space between paragraphs and one went to quadruple space between paragraphs. Why???

There are two lines in the first chapter that are italicized (internal thought)---how do I keep or indicate that in the emailed pages?

[dios4vida]

The only thing I can think of is that notepad is messing things up. I typically paste straight from Word to the email and have never had a problem with it, but converting to notepad and then converting to email might be too much for the computer to handle.

I'd try just taking your raw text and emailiing it to see what happens.

[cheekychook]

Thanks Dios4diva---I've tried that too---using my actual document definitely gives the quadruple (or more) spacing between paragraphs. It's my understanding that notepad is supposed to remove all that, so I'm guessing I'm doing something else wrong. Appreciate the suggestion.

[polymath]

Much depends on the e-mail client of the sender and the recipient. Copied from a Microsoft wordprocessor product into a Microsoft e-mail product doesn't create as many apparent formating issues as an intermediary plain text editor. A double line spaced Word text pasted into an Outlook e-mail automatically converts to single spacing and a double line break separating paragraphs for paragraphs tab indented. That's the basic unindented paragraph block format emerging as the online and e-mail format. Much like discussion forum posts. Copied and pasted paragraph tabbed Indents are othewise ignored by Outlook, but a tab indent typed in Outlook auto converts to five nonbreaking space characters by default.   is the source code for nonbreaking space in the rich text standard for HTML e-mail. Web e-mail recognizes the nbsp character. Plain text e-mail recognizes sequential, multiple spaces as a single typed keyboard breaking space.

Basic online block format.

Narrative string paragraph.

"Dialogue paragraph," speaker one.

Speaker two, "Dialogue paragraph."

However, other issues arise at the recipient's end. Microsoft products are cross application compatible with their proprietary formatting entities. Several ones include shy hyphens, curly quotes and apostrophes, ellipsis points that convert into a proprietary "...", and double and triple hyphen dashes that convert into en and em dashes. If a recipient's e-mail client doesn't recognize those Microsoft fomatting code characters a nonce character will display, commonly a question mark, but occassionaly also a ligature glyph like Æ will display. The workaround for those issues is turning the auto reformat features off in the Word or other wordprocessor application and using straight quote marks and apostrophes. Other special glyphs and symbols do the same things but aren't as common in prose. Acute accents, grave accents, umlauts, etc.

Italics and bold are other issues that have no simple workaround, other than the old manual typewriter standby bracketing italicized text with underscores, i.e., _Italicized text string._ And bold formatting bracketed with asterisks, i.e., *Bold text string.* However those are by no means standard usage. Some writers and readers invert their meaning, asterisks for italics, underscores for bold. I think it's a best practice to avoid italics and bold altogether, reserving formatting nondiscretionary italics usages for publication formatting by whomever sets and copyedits the type.

My rule of thumb is, if it's not a standard character on a manual typewriter, write without. Let the words and the few meaningful punctuation marks, commas, periods, question marks, and apostrophes, do the talking. Res ipsa loquitur.

[Holly]

Hi, cheekychook. Nathan blogged about this subject here: http://blog.nathanbransford.com/2010/03 ... etter.html The comments have more advice. You might do a search on this topic, too. I know I've seen it on the forum.

You can also underline the italics and tell your email to send everything as text instead of HTML.

[cheekychook]

Thanks Holly. I've read every blog/post/etc that I can find (that's where I came up with the whole "paste it into notepad first" idea---I never would have thought of that on my own!), but I'm still getting erratic results---not with the query letter portion of the email, just with the sample pages. I just don't know enough about the tech-end of things to competently (or consistently) work around it. I've been consoling myself with Nathan's "do the best you can" attitude regarding sample pages. :)

[Holly]

cheekychook, one more thought. I'm not techy at all, but I believe that the more you change the document you're going to paste into the email, the more problems you will have. It's as if the email gremlins remember all the spacing you adjusted and they put it all back.

You can always save a version as text: my novel.txt, then resave that in Times New Roman or whatever font you want to use, and then paste into the email from that. Text knocks out all the formatting, obvious and hidden.

Also, after you forward an email to yourself to see what it looks like, delete it. If you forward it again, the email will add spaces.

[Holly]

I am nuts about this subject. Here is a really good post from the old Miss Snark website. The comments are loaded with suggestions.

http://misssnark.blogspot.com/2007/05/e ... blems.html

[cheekychook]

Thanks again Holly.

My ever-wise critique partner found an article last night with some suggestions I hadn't seen elsewhere----using word you can highlight what you're trying to copy (ctl-A) then take out the formatting by hitting (ctrl-spacebar). http://www.lockergnome.com/windows/2007 ... word-2007/ (Note---this was in an article specifically for Word 2007 users, which I am, so I don't know if it works for earlier Word versions.) It seems to work, so that part of the problem is solved. The rest of the issues appear to be on the receiving end, based on what the receiving email automatically does with incoming text. I have sent to my own 3 email accounts, and 3 friends with different servers. It is legible for all, though it still looks better at some than at others. I get the feeling agents are probably used to this.

[Quill]

Gosh, if it's not one thing it's another ? Can't wait to start querying and pasting pages ? and sorting this out myself.

Sounds like ? sometimes things will be wonky no matter what!

I tried the control ? spacebar thing, and visually nothing happened. Is it converted to text nonetheless?

[cheekychook]

Gosh, if it's not one thing it's another ? Can't wait to start querying and pasting pages ? and sorting this out myself.

Sounds like ? sometimes things will be wonky no matter what!

I tried the control ? spacebar thing, and visually nothing happened. Is it converted to text nonetheless?

Hmmm.... things visably changed on mine after ctrl-spacebar.....no idea. I'm fairly convinced at this point that computers (like dogs and bees) can sense fear, so I'm guessing that's my problem. Makes about as much sense as any of the conflicting advice I've read on "tech help" sites.

[polymath]

Navigating the labyrinth of compatability issues can be fun puzzle solving, but it's frustrating when on deadlines.

I coach business and private clients on technology applications. Everyone starts out with a task in mind and an idea they can make the software do what they want it to do, if I would only show them how. They run up against the limitations of technology pretty quickly. The reality is the application must be understood in order to achieve an end result goal. My main chore is to show them how to get the results they desire by learning what an application will do.

I had one client who wanted to use Microsoft Works for an address database, mail merge, form letter composition, and printout of stationary and envelopes. Works does all that, but the client wanted to streamline and standardize the process and ignore all the incidental processes involved. Several hours-long sessions readjusting the client's thought processes and a couple hundred dollars later, and the client was able to go it alone. Then the client wanted to include graphics. The client had a 286 computer running Microsoft '96 with only about 200 Megs of RAM.

Another client wanted to compose text for input into Web pages and post them through a Web-based form input process. That client had all kinds of issues with proprietary formating. The dread question mark replaced hyphens and dashes and ligature glyphs replaced curly quotes and apostrophes on the displayed Web pages. The client was resistant to the least troublesome workaround, UTF-16 plain text composition, preferring composition in Word and saving in DOC format because learning a new software was out of the question, let alone learning HTML. A scant half hour teaching the client how to reset document settings and setting up a user template solved the majority of the issues.

Being a stickler for grammar, the client needed basic character escape coding protocols and character entities for accute vowels (é small e, acute accent é é), grave vowels (à small a, grave accent à à), circumflex vowels (î small i, circumflex accent î î), umlaut vowels (ö small o, umlaut mark ö ö), and n tilde (ñ small n, tilde ñ ñ). I gave the client a clip file of the most common entities with written instructions on when and how to use them. I got telephone help inquiries for a month after until the client figured it all out.

I've been through all the issues of e-mail format compatability. One of my technical specialities is cross platform and cross application compatability resolution. One hard lesson to learn is crossing from paper mindset to digital involves compromises. Thus an emerging online format with a different layout than Standard Manuscript Format. However, as more and more agencies and houses switch to accepting Web submissions, writers will be more able to submit SMF attachments formatted exactly as a writer intends, DOC, RTF, and PDF. PDF is the ideal for paper outlets because it imports easily into most publishing softwares. DOC isn't as cross compatible for digital output as RTF, which preserves italic and bold and other simple formatting, The curly quote and apostrophe issues remain.

[cheekychook]

Thanks for the multiple replies, polymath.

I have no such illusions that I can make the software do what I want it to do.

Internet searching has, however, brought another potential problem to my attention. I'm thinking this could be the source....

[polymath]

Yeah, kitties have their way with writers. One of my copyediting clients lost forty pages of transcript to a kitty tapdancing on her keyboard while her back was turned and had to recreate it from paper printout steno notes and audio recording. Huh-boy. A two-hour job turned into a six-hour job. It had to be exactly verbatim because her client had a video recording to compare it with.

[Holly]

Thanks for the multiple replies, polymath.

I have no such illusions that I can make the software do what I want it to do.

Internet searching has, however, brought another potential problem to my attention. I'm thinking this could be the source....

Ha, ha. I have four cats and two dogs and agree, that must be the problem. Hair is a way of life.

Quill, your wonky ? wonky response is hilarious -- I laughed out loud.