The literary agent is also a practicing author - say what?

[Username]

I've searched this forum (and maybe I simply missed seeing the thread), but it astonishes me that people haven't brought up the issue of the literary agent also being a practicing novelist.

Here's what Mr. Bransford has listed near the top of his web-page.

"I'm a literary agent with the San Francisco office of Curtis Brown Ltd. and the author of JACOB WONDERBAR AND THE COSMIC SPACE KAPOW, which will be published by Dial Books for Young Readers in 2011."

I would've thought that people would've objected to this, for what should be the obvious reason. If you're an unpublished writer in today's market, which, obviously, is incredibly competitive, then, basically, you're a bottom-feeder, with virtually no power whatsoever. There's always the possibility that you might have a great book on your hands - but simply because you're an 'unpublished nobody' your queries aren't receiving the attention they deserve. So what happens then if you've come up with an absolutely brilliant idea for a novel, but for whatever reasons, the literary agent doesn't like the execution? What happens if, in one page, you've explained the plot of your novel - a plot on which you've perhaps been chipping away at for years - and the literary agent, a practicing writer, subconsciously allows it to enter his mind?

There's a movie titled 'Coming To America' (you've probably seen it) in which the original screenwriter had his work plagiarized by Paramount Pictures.

From Wikipedia:

"Long before Murphy did any writing for 'Coming to America', Art Buchwald had approached Paramount Pictures with the idea for a similar film. His material was rejected, but the information was retained by Paramount. They liked Buchwald's idea but did not see fit to pay him and saved it for use later down the road."

I should point out that certain people involved in this plagiarism made it known that the plagiarism was not done deliberately, and indeed Eddie Murphy himself said that at one point he had discussed the film with the original screenwriter, but had simply forgotten about the conversation due to the sheer number of projects he had been looking at at the time.

Obviously, any creative person, when submitting a project, has to be a little bit weary of being plagiarized despite copywrite protections - let's face it, in some cases, it would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to prove a copywrite infringement (infringements for ideas 'half-borrowed' for example, would be almost impossible to prove). Novelists submit their work to agents all the time of course - but these agents aren't creative people, whose brains are functioning on a creative level.

Am I suggesting that Mr. Bransford would deliberately plagiarize an idea from an unpublished novelist's query letter or synopsis - absolutely not. In fact, I would suggest the exact opposite. Most, if not all practicing literary agents in the U.S.A., would never take an idea from a query letter and pass it along. The chief difference here is that if you happen to be a novelist yourself, and an idea is presented to you, then it enters your mind, and it stays there.

People are always asking me where I get my 'ideas' from. What they fail to realize is that an 'idea' often presents itself only during the writing itself, and that it can take years to generate the novel's plot. Myself, I have a one-page synopsis for a novel I've been working on for five years now - in other words, it's taken me five years to arrive at the point where I actually can articulate the idea in just one page. There's no way in a million years I would send this to Mr. Bransford. How many unpublished novelists have had a novel on their hands which took them years to sell? At this stage, based on my experiences, I can only assume that no matter how well written any novel of mine might be, that it's going to take me years to get it published.

You think I'm going to pass along the plot or the 'idea' of my novel to Mr. Bransford, a practicing novelist who likely receives thousands of queries per year? You'd have to be out of your brains to think that. To each his own, of course, but, again, it just astonishes me that any unpublished novelist would submit to a literary agent who is also a practicing novelist (and is clearly in a position of power).

Perhaps you feel safe in communicating your ideas to Mr. Bransford. Better you than me. I think I'll have to pass on this one.

[Dankrubis]

Heh. I get what you're saying, man, and it has merit, but only a fraction.

Let's say you send your one page synopsis to good ol' Nate Dogg. He reads it and passes. Then, a year and thousands of queries later, he starts brainstorming his next project. Do you really think he'd be able to recall anything about your synopsis? And the probability would be even lower the way you're suggesting it- that his subconscious digs it up as his own idea?

Alls I'm saying, I think you've got a better shot at dying in a plane crash while sitting next to Carrot Top than Nathan accidentally stealing your idea.

[Bryan Russell/Ink]

No offense, but ideas are easy. Everyone has ideas. People who've never actually read a book have ideas for them. It's the whole writing a novel thing that's hard. What you could glean from a query is pretty minimal, and even if intentionally used the final output would be vastly different. But, I must say, I've never met a writer lacking in ideas. And if the agent is receiving 15,000 queries a year... are you really so worried that your idea is so mind-bogglingly great that the agent can't do anything but subconsciously adopt it? If a writer sent something that good they'd simply request the pages. And if the writer had the recquisite talent they'd consider representing the project. Unless the writer had no talent, in which case why worry anyway? I can't see many agents writing whole novels on the ideas they've already rejected.

[Jaime]

Novelists submit their work to agents all the time of course - but these agents aren't creative people, whose brains are functioning on a creative level.

. . .

You think I'm going to pass along the plot or the 'idea' of my novel to Mr. Bransford, a practicing novelist who likely receives thousands of queries per year? You'd have to be out of your brains to think that. To each his own, of course, but, again, it just astonishes me that any unpublished novelist would submit to a literary agent who is also a practicing novelist (and is clearly in a position of power).

Wow. Hang on, I'm just trying to scrape my jaw off the ground . . .

Yes, of course we know Nathan is an author, and I believe it makes him an even more credible agent. Why wouldn't I want an agent who has gone through the daunting task of writing a book, editing a book, finding an agent, and finding a publisher?

I can't speak on behalf of him, obviously, but I think your post is quite rude and presumptuous. Give the man some credit. You honestly think that because he's a literary agent, he's not creative? That is so ignorant, I'm actually lost for words. Did you ever consider the fact that writing might actually be his passion? No. I guess you didn't. And if you had done your research, you would know that he had to seek an agent, just like the rest of us 'bottom-feeders'.

[Hillsy]

I'll go the other way (I think massive indignation is a rather daft reaction in this case)....

I understand what you're saying: without meaning to, somewhere in the genesis of Nathan's next idea a previous, forgotten, query is THE driving force.

The logic is, most likely, quite correct. If I could be bothered to find it, which I can't, there's probably a very credible thesis around the formation of ideas, subconscious suggestion and mimicry. Detracting from the HUGE mathmatical probablilities at work here (If Nathan writes 10 books in the next 20 years he'll have 290'000 discarded query letters to accidentally copy - and that's assuming the fact he copies only query letters and isn't inspired by 'The HIlls' or some other TV show - and assuming he NEVER has an original idea himself) - who cares?

Romeo and Julliet, for example, has been copied a bazillion times. In query letter form, the stripped down plot could describe a hundred books and/or films if one was to make it utterly devoid of context (removing names, settings, that sort of thing). If I gave someone my query letter and actually demanded they plagurise it, I could probably sit read their novel and find very little in common with my own (of course copying my staggering prose, insightful theme and engaging characters is almost impossible!!!!...hehe)

See I think what you are doing is confusing how a idea is "stolen" subconsciously, with how it is stolen consciously. As INK said, ideas are easy, original ideas are rarer, but an Idea does not a book make. A subconcious "Theft" would involve some kind of synthesis with other thoughts. In the case of Coming to America (brilliant film I must say) you'd probably find that the original script had several differences: the Characters will be different, or added, or deleted, or have different motives. The tone of the script could be different. He wasn't a Prince but a wealthy businessman's son (I can't be bothered to look at wiki). A conscious "Theft" would involve a direct lifting of scenes or funny dialogue, full character realisation on a level you just couldn't do "by accident".

My point is, you're overreacting to the problem. Maths aside, you could probably sell bloody Harry Potter again if you purely copied the 'idea'. Hell, someone with a far denser knowledge of literature and mythology could probably say HP is a rip off of Star Wars or something. Your Idea isn't what will get you signed and published, it's you book. So if you had said that you feared Nathan would request your MS, then deliberately nick it I would say you had viable grounds for your fears - but thankfully there are Laws against that kind of thing (Damn!...hehe)

[taylormillgirl]

Meh, like the previous posters have said, the scenario you describe is unlikely. The only concern I'd have is that a published agent would "make it big," quit their day job, and leave me high and dry without an agent. But even agents who don't write leave thier jobs, so my own concern is invalid.

Besides, there really is no such thing as an original idea. No matter how freaky-deaky your thoughts are, someone else in this crowded world has thought the exact same thing. What matters is a writer's ability to get the story down on paper/screen and tell it well.

[tameson]

I think it was over on critters where they discussed theft, but too lazy to look up to be sure. The poster claimed that most beginning writer's are terrified that their idea will be stolen. The problem is, books aren't published based on ideas. They are published because of the writing- the voice of the author. And that is almost impossible to steal. Which is why eventually, writers stop worrying about their ideas being stolen, because really, the ideas aren't the valuable part of the writing.

[Holly]

Myself, I have a one-page synopsis for a novel I've been working on for five years now - in other words, it's taken me five years to arrive at the point where I actually can articulate the idea in just one page. There's no way in a million years I would send this to Mr. Bransford....You think I'm going to pass along the plot or the 'idea' of my novel to Mr. Bransford, a practicing novelist who likely receives thousands of queries per year?

This is a great example of THE PARANOID WRITER SYNDROME.

I have a writer friend who came home from a trip and couldn't find a flash drive with the only copy of his novel. He went nuts. He thought somebody had stolen his novel. They were going to rip him off and make a million dollars. Hey, the flash drive was in a shirt he'd thrown in the laundry.

Good luck, dude. You are so paranoid that you should consider professional help... and I mean that with goodwill and sincerity. How can you trust people enough to go to a doctor, or a dentist, or have somebody work on your car? Yes, bad things happen in every walk of life, but mostly not. You've lost all realistic perspective.

[Ryan]

Good ideas are recycled and tweaked all the time. Common themes that we relate to are repeated over and over. Just look at Avatar....Outer space Pocahontas in 3D!

Well at least you provided some "heat" and drama for today.

[Username]

To each his own, but if you're an unpublished novelist, and you've just written a book, say, about a young lawyer who gets a job with a firm in Memphis... my advice would be to be careful who you shop that to.

On the other hand, if you've just written a novel titled 'Ted and Jane's Zombie Wedding', then by all means, query away.

Also, some of you people might be decent enough writers - but you can't read worth a damn. I'm well aware that there's more to writing a novel than just coming up with an idea. What's not clear about this: "People are always asking me where I get my 'ideas' from. What they fail to realize is that an 'idea' often presents itself only during the writing itself, and that it can take years to generate the novel's plot. Myself, I have a one-page synopsis for a novel I've been working on for five years now - in other words, it's taken me five years to arrive at the point where I actually can articulate the idea in just one page."

But again, to each his own: if as an unpublished novelist you want to submit your work to a practicing novelist, then by all means, go right ahead.

[Username]

Myself, I have a one-page synopsis for a novel I've been working on for five years now - in other words, it's taken me five years to arrive at the point where I actually can articulate the idea in just one page. There's no way in a million years I would send this to Mr. Bransford....You think I'm going to pass along the plot or the 'idea' of my novel to Mr. Bransford, a practicing novelist who likely receives thousands of queries per year?

This is a great example of THE PARANOID WRITER SYNDROME.

I have a writer friend who came home from a trip and couldn't find a flash drive with the only copy of his novel. He went nuts. He thought somebody had stolen his novel. They were going to rip him off and make a million dollars. Hey, the flash drive was in a shirt he'd thrown in the laundry.

Good luck, dude. You are so paranoid that you should consider professional help... and I mean that with goodwill and sincerity. How can you trust people enough to go to a doctor, or a dentist, or have somebody work on your car? Yes, bad things happen in every walk of life, but mostly not. You've lost all realistic perspective.

LOL!

Has nothing to do with what I wrote... dude.

[Username]

Also, one faintly stuffy question: but how many of you here are published novelists?

[Dankrubis]

Also, one faintly stuffy question: but how many of you here are published novelists?

This forum and its conjoined blog is like a class on how to find an agent and get published. Therefore, very few. But if the results are similar to what they were over the summer, then about 10% of the people here are published.

http://blog.nathanbransford.com/2009/08 ... urvey.html

[Bryan Russell/Ink]

Username,

You were saying you spent five years working to get your query on that one page... but I certainly hope that's not true. I'm guessing you spent five years working on your novel. Otherwise you'd seriously have to work on your time management skills. So, five years on the novel, and that's the key. We're just saying that while your book might be worthwhile (and might even be fantastic), your query isn't really worth much of anything outside a quick hook to get someone's interest. So you query about a young lawyer signing with a firm in Memphis... I mean, what's that? What'll that get you? That's not your book. It's only a possibility... the book is the reality. A young lawyer signs with a firm and gets caught up in shady dealings... I mean, that's just a basic idea. It's nothing to write home about on its own. In the hands of John Grisham, though, the story might be going somewhere. But it's the novel that has value, not the query. Not the idea. People are still writing that same idea all the time. Most won't be very good, but a few will, and a few might get published. Not because they're just the same, but because the author's unique vision of that idea will be very different from Grisham's.

I think we're just saying it's sort of pointless to worry about the idea when it's the book that's important. It's the book that will sell. It's your voice, the uniqueness of your writing, that will make or break this story. In this industry the number of doors and windows you can climb through are very limited. Why start closing them yourself on account of something so entirely unlikely as you've laid out? That you send your query to an agent, who doesn't like the idea and rejects it, and then somehow, through unconscious story osmosis, adopts your idea point by point and writes a novel himself, and then queries it and gets it accepted and published (and somehow beats your story to that point despite being written at a far later date), at which time it will do so fantastically well that it pushes your story down because people won't want to publish anything similar?

I'm sorry, but that just seems overprotective to me. If you have a great idea, why hide it? Get it out there, let the agent see it. That's what great ideas are for... a hook. But it's what you do with that idea that's important and has real value.

[Yoshima]

Also, one faintly stuffy question: but how many of you here are published novelists?

Well, we are discussing your little dilemma in the "All Things FINDING AN AGENT" forum. I must wonder why someone who said we people can't read worth a damn would ask a question that could be easily answered by reading the title of the forum.

It's wonderful that you have dedicated so much time and effort to your book and take pride in your concept. It's only natural that you feel protective of it. I believe you can get a copyright for your material even if it isn't published yet, so that might be something you could do to protect your stuff.