Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Because that novel isn't going to delay itself
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Nathan Bransford
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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by Nathan Bransford » March 12th, 2010, 6:43 pm

How is the flash-sideways working for people at this point in the season? I came across this article in io9 called 5 Reasons Lost's Parallel Universe is a Waste of Time, and I'm sad to say I found myself nodding along to some of it. I find my attention wandering when I'm watching the show and that's never happened to me on Lost before!

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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by abc » March 12th, 2010, 9:24 pm

I'm not minding the flash sideways as long as it involves a character that interests me or the storyline doesn't feel overly forced. I have to say I rolled my eyes at the Jack/son bonding. Although it gave his character some redemption, I guess. And although I love hanging out with Linus, the principal bribery was just plain goofy. But I am quite fond of the idea of Linus as a European History high school teacher taking care of his ailing, former sumbitch father. Locke stuff is usually cool. Sayid stuff is usually engrossing for me. I'm not at all interested in watching Kate go on the run again and again ("I don't do Taco Night!"). Enough! Waiting for the Sawyer episode.

But all in all, I am MUCH more interested in hanging out on the Island and seeing what Smokey does. And Island Jack sort of got interesting again. Island Sayid definitely got interesting.

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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by THB » March 13th, 2010, 8:58 am

It seems to me the point of the flash sideways has been accomplished: to show us that the characters and their fates are the same no matter what universe they exist in, no matter how events transpire or would have transpired for them. Sayid does not get to be with Nadia because of his sins, no matter when or where he is. Jack cannot get his shit together, at least to this point in his life, no matter when or where he is. Ben gets redemption. Etc.

This brings me to a different point: Ben. Did anyone else have trouble buying Ben's 100% turn around and redemption? The guy did so much bad stuff in his life, and yes, I get the nasty, screwed-up childhood and the means-to-an-end thing, and I could see a partial redemption, but it really appears that he's like the Grinch after his heart "grew three sizes that day." It isn't plausible to me on this level. Anyone else?

AND WHERE IS WALT???

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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by ryanznock » March 13th, 2010, 6:38 pm

The flash sidewayses don't excite me, but I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. Still, the show used to use the 'flashes' to screw with our heads ("mindfuck" being the preferred term). Now, if you're a regular to the show, you're not seeing anything really revelatory to the characters. Maybe it will pay off in the end, but my hunch is that they're written mostly to give new viewers the ability to identify with the characters, since they don't have the benefit of 5 years of show.

To which I say, Hulu has all the episodes. Send them there; don't dither with alternate realities. It's rather sapping to the narrative's tension. I mean, I'm assuming at the end of this, one reality will face off against the other, and only one will survive. But we're seeing only the faintest actually interaction between the two realities, so it's like they're telling parallel stories. Time spent with one just distracts from the other.

Who knows, though? Maybe they're jedi masters and have a grand plan that will blow us away. (Easy prediction: Smokey's actually good, Jacob's actually evil.) I've come this far; may as well finish.

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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by MoiraYoung » March 13th, 2010, 9:29 pm

I haven't yet had a chance to catch up on the entire thread just yet, so bear with me.

I have a confession to make: I only really started watching this season. Except for occasionally catching a minute or two here and there when I was passing through the living room, I haven't really followed it, because most of the conversations between me and my husband went like this:

Me: "Wait, why is he doing that?"
DH: "Because of X."
Me: "I don't follow."
DH: "Well, A, B, and C happened, and they have to deal with D, which led to X in the first place."
Me: "I still don't follow."
DH: "*simplified response*. Trust me, if you watched it, you'd get it."
Me: "O....kay. Um, I have to go back to what I was doing now."

This time, I happened to still be on the couch when the season premier came on, so I'm actually following. At least I have a supportive plot tour guide!

So far, our guess is string theory, with the two divergent universes caused by the bomb. We're pretty sure they'll merge, and if not, then something will happen on flash-sideways Earth to get all of the key players together, anyway.

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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by Steppe » March 14th, 2010, 12:27 pm

Nathan Opines:

"How is the flash-sideways working for people at this point in the season? I came across this article in io9 called 5 Reasons Lost's Parallel Universe is a Waste of Time, and I'm sad to say I found myself nodding along to some of it. I find my attention wandering when I'm watching the show and that's never happened to me on Lost before!"



Having spent a week and a half catching up on the show
I would have to counter argue with the emotional investment
strategy.

By now the character "Ben Linus" is either redeemed in your mind
or he is still just a victim of circumstance and a conniving weasel.

If he is redeemed then the trivial fates of never having crashed
on the Island are slightly more interesting.

If in this life you have ever gone down the rabbit hole with a bunch of friends
or business colleagues or fellow sports team mates and found yourself in jail or
performing lengthy acts of community service because you not only saw
the handwriting on the wall that said go home and take a nap and think this
next move in your life over; but actually spray paint Frak You on the wall and
drove a Humvee through it then you feel satisfaction that the characters were all
risk takers and crashing on the island and gaining partial control over the universe
is quite the learning experience. Plus every one gets to delude themselves into
believing they are achieving the moral high ground in their own moral systems.

In the end it is more interesting to have been trapped in a destiny matrix with
the universe.

You might have a point on the pacing issue.
Was back story disguised as side story relevant to the meter of the greater storyline?

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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by Lynn » March 14th, 2010, 12:47 pm

I think it all boiled down to Illana's "I'll have you" and Mile's revelation that Jacob did not, in fact, want to die. These things altered Ben. That's how I saw it anyway. And Emerson, WOW!

Ben had every opportunity to kill Illana, but did not. It was telling.

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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by Aimée » March 14th, 2010, 1:07 pm

I think the flash sideways are very very very important. They do have a lot of character development — even though they are in different situations than on the island obviously, their personalities are quite similar, and we are learning more about what they would do in certain situations. It helps with understanding why they do what they do on the island. Plus there is A LOT of foreshadowing and irony (Locke's conversation as the sub with Arzt and Ben in the beginning of the episode, Jack saying "I'd be a terrible dad") which is just fun.
In my opinion (which is a pretty confusing opinion) these flash sideways are an alternate universe that was set into motion when the bomb went off (which is probably what everyone else is saying too) but I've noticed that many events that took place BEFORE the bomb went off have changed too (the Linus' leaving before the bomb, Ethan leaving before the bomb) so maybe — what I thought at the beginning of season six — these flashes are some sort of flash forward that hasn't happened yet, but they are calling them flash sideways because they are happening at the same time as what they are doing on the island. But there are dead people that are now alive, which is confusing, but remember the whole "course correcting" thing? Charlie said on the plane that he had to die. Claire needing to raise Aaron herself (which we still haven't found out why yet). And lots of other stuff like that.
But what's really bothering me is the stuff that was altered before the bomb. The Linus' didn't seem shaken by leaving; they seemed a little nostalgic even, like they wanted to go back, so obviously they didn't know that the island is now at the bottom of the ocean. Oh I also just remembered that we saw the shark with the Dharma logo on it in the first episode, so the Dharma initiative having existed was already explained, they just now put it in words! (I'm pretty sure that everything else just about has been explained, you just have to dig deep into all those episodes to find it out). So back to what I was saying... everything that happened on the island, happened. then when they traveled back and blew it up, a new timeline did not start there. It started before the explosion, but the Linus' and the Goodspeeds got off the island before the explosion, but they were not warned because Roger kind of wanted to go back, so maybe Jacob somehow found a way to get them off because he knows they are important, obviously. If they did not get off, then Claire and Alex and lots of other people would be in totally different situations which would in turn affect many other peoples' lives, like Kate's or Arzt's and Aaron's obviously.
So Jacob (who is like the God or whatever) is absolutely aware of both timelines, and maybe many other timelines if there are others. He can manipulate people to do what NEEDS to happen in order for everyone to meet and live the lives they should live, which we know already. And he needs them to live the way he wants them to live because he needs them in certain places so they can be where he wants them to be and do what he needs them to do. This is a very vague explanation because we have no idea what he needs them to do besides be his "replacement." I'm sure they definitely have more important things to do also besides just that.
So that's my very complex theory about the alternate universe. Don't diss the flash sideways. They are DEFINITELY important. The producers will explain it to us in the end. Don't worry about it.

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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by Sam » March 15th, 2010, 11:04 pm

I think the flash sideways could be one of the most significant parts of the final season and it could be the ending of a culmination of a lot of the strange twists the plot has taken in the previous season.

What if, We find that Ben (school teacher) was shot as a child and that's one of the reasons his father decided to remove his from the island?

What if we find that it was Sayid that shot Ben?

What if it turns out that Sayid shot Ben even though in the sideways timeline Sayid never went to the island?

What if Ben meets Sayid in the sideways timeline and all heck breaks loose dragging them all into yet another altered reality?

OF all the people Ben could run into in the sideways timeline and not be reminded of his childhood on the island Locke would be the only one of the main characters that he could meet and not be triggered to a "You were on the island when I was shot" reaction. Funny how Locke is the first and only one that Ben has run into the somehow joined in or was some part of the Dharma Initiative when Ben was young. (The other teacher died before the time twist)

What if Ben's bullet hole sucked everyone in the sideways flashy thing back to the island?

Imagine all the characters in the moment being drug back to the island with the sideways timeline knowledge. Hurley with the "I was lucky" speech, Jack with the "I was a father" loss, you know, kind of like in the flash forwards in the new ABC show?

Wouldn't it be funny if Juliet was reincarnated in another ABC show like V or something?

What if?



Sam

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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by Josin » March 17th, 2010, 10:44 am

My nerdy contribution of the week:

Next week's episode is called Ab Aeterno, which is a Latin phrase meaning :
Literally, "from the everlasting" or "from eternity". Thus, "from time immemorial", "since the beginning of time" or "from an infinitely remote time in the past". In theology, often indicates something, such as the universe, that was created outside of time.
Considering Jack's comment of "we go back to where it all started", perhaps the island is going backward through time itself (going toward the statue being in one piece rather than crumbled). It actually fits with all of the physics references because there's a theory about the directionality of time that says there's no reason it has to move forward everywhere at the same time.

That would explain why things "seem farther" on certain parts of the island (like swimming through the pool to snag the H-bomb) and they have to be unconscious to get there safely. The EM-field barrier would protect the time stream on the island from that of the outside. (and, incidentally, anyone on the island still moving forward through time would go batty. It would be like the fluid in their brain moving a different direction from their body, so they'd be constantly "dizzy").

In a way, it explains "Young Jacob", because it's what they're moving toward (I'll be especially ticked off if that turns out to be Aaron.)

My theory of the moment:

MiB = old Jacob.
Jacob = current Jacob.
Young Jacob = Young Jacob

He's a being that exists from end to beginning in a world that exists from beginning to end. He's gone crazy after millennia on the island and now he wants off.

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Nathan Bransford
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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by Nathan Bransford » March 18th, 2010, 12:21 am

Interesting theory, Josin, I like it!

I enjoyed the Sawyer episode, and this was one where I really was riveted by the flash-sideways. Really interesting.

And of course I'm very excited to learn more about Richard Alpert next week!

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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by tiftruitt » March 18th, 2010, 6:12 pm

Who else would be down for the Miles /Sawyer buddy cop show?

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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by abc » March 18th, 2010, 7:51 pm

tiftruitt wrote:Who else would be down for the Miles /Sawyer buddy cop show?
I totally would! Can we also throw in Daniel Faraday as a geeky forensic scientist?

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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by Nathan Bransford » March 18th, 2010, 8:03 pm

tiftruitt wrote:Who else would be down for the Miles /Sawyer buddy cop show?
They really need to spin this off.

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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by owlandsparrow » March 22nd, 2010, 1:01 pm

Okay, my new theory:

Perhaps the Smoke Monster = Aaron, through some trick of time travel. At some point in the future, baby Aaron could be reunited with the current crazy version of Claire, and thus be raised by a 'crazy mother.' Later, since everyone born on the Island is called back to it at some point (Charlotte, Miles, etc.), perhaps he would return and get caught in a time flash and be sent way back into the past somehow.

Smoke Monster's weird conversation with Kate was what got me thinking about this. To Kate, he says: "My mother was crazy. Long time ago, before I looked like this, I had a mother just like everyone. She was a very disturbed woman. And as a result of that, I had some growing pains. Problems that I'm still trying to work my way through. Problems that could have been avoided if things had been different." Why was he telling her this? "Because Aaron has a crazy mother, too."

This made me think, is this some subtle way of insinuating that he could actually be Aaron, and that his crazy mother is one and the same as Claire? It just seems like an odd way to explain himself to Kate. Also, here are some other things I noticed that support this idea (in my opinion):

- He was unusually violent with Claire after she attacked Kate. Perhaps out of bitterness toward Claire because of what happened to him?
- He was unusually kind/protective toward Kate. He protected her when Claire tried to kill her, for no apparent reason. Also, Kate clearly pointed out that he could have just told her this information, but instead, took her aside in private. Perhaps he just wanted to spend some time with her...because he's grateful for the kindness he showed her as a baby, when she went out of her way to take care of him?
- The weird look the Smoke Monster gave Kate when she joined his entourage after the Temple massacre. If Smoke Monster = Aaron, maybe the weird look he gave her was a look of recognition. He looked genuinely caught off guard there, maybe this is why.
- Kate is still a candidate (#51, according to the dial in Jacob's Lighthouse), but Smoke Monster didn't mention her to Sawyer when they were in the cave. Not sure exactly how this would work, but maybe he's trying to hide the fact that she's a candidate, as strategy to protect her from inheriting a terrible fate (i.e. being stuck on the Island forever like he has been?). Either that, or he honestly doesn't know she's a candidate (which makes his protection over her even more suspicious).
- "Your baby must not be raised by another..." Perhaps this is why? If Aaron is raised by another, like he obviously was, it would set in motion a chain of events that leads to Aaron becoming the Smoke Monster?

Last, I think the final line of Smoke Monster's explanation to Kate ("Problems that could have been avoided if things had been different.") could be an explanation for the Sideways world. In the "Dr. Linus" episode, several people alluded to the whole, "What if things had been different?" question. Maybe in the Sideways world, things are different (well, obviously they are, but...why?). Maybe the differences are significant because it's a world where Claire gives birth to Aaron and raises him, never becomes crazy, never ends up on the Island...and therefore (if my theory works), there is never a Smoke Monster? And, if there's never a Smoke-Monster, there's never a reason for a Smoke-Monster v. Jacob conflict? Therefore, a world where the candidates have not experienced Jacob's blessing-slash-curse touch, and therefore their lives are different (except for the major workings of Fate that seem consistent in both worlds). That said, I'm not convinced the Sideways world is merely a 'what-if?' world - I still think they're connected somehow, whether they are parallel worlds, a big time loop that keeps repeating, or (as someone suggested earlier), perhaps the Flash Sideways are, somehow, actually Flash Forwards.

Any thoughts on this?

PS: I feel like I just told y'all the equivalent of, oh..."The sky is orange and it rains honey." Crazy, but in LOST world? Anything seems possible these days.

PPS: Anyone else get the feeling that when the Smoke Monster promised Sawyer he'd "get him off this Island," he really only meant he'd get him off the Island they were currently on? Therefore, he technically already fulfilled his word by sending him to Hydra Island, and has no intentions whatsoever of getting Sawyer home?

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