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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Posted: February 15th, 2010, 11:41 am
by Josin
My opinions/observations, FWIW
abc wrote: the four toed statue
Tawaret, goddess of childbirth. She's broken, so that could be an allusion to whatever happened to the mothers on the island dying when their children were conceived there. She was a protector deity for those in childbirth, so losing her hands could be a means of saying they lost their protection.
the polar bear
The polar bear was already explained -- it came out of the bear cage from the "zoo". Though, it should have died in the heat.
what the dharma initiative was trying to accomplish
From the filmstrips, they were mucking around with the Kasimir effect, so that would make it time travel/multi-verse theory. "The Looking Glass", one of the stations, is also a reference to quantum theory.
the lists
Not sure yet, but most likely tied to all the "they/them" that gets tossed around.
the numbers
who knows...
why women can't have babies
Part of this is probably going to tie back to Tawaret. It probably also has something to do with being "claimed" The fetus and the "infection" can't both live in the same body, so the host dies.
what or who Christian is
He's dead. The Christian who appears is a manifestation of Smokey. He was looking for someone he could manipulate into doing what he needed done, but he apparently has to use a dead body to do it (thus the "we must bury the dead, and quick" mentality of the others). He started with Jack, because that was who he saw in Christian's memories and a Dr. was a good candidate for leader. I also think Smokey's been Vincent the dog, the "drowned" version of Walt that got Shannon shot, and "scruffy" Richard that young Ben met in the woods, along with Ben's Mother.
the magic box or whatever that Ben once referenced (and how he brought Locke's dad)
One of the stories of the Banyan tree (that spot Smokey can't get into that looks like vines) is that it brings you your heart's desires... exactly how Ben described the magic box.
Who is Jacob? And the guy in black?
Jacob said they were old friends, Smokey (Esau, whatever you wanna call him) said he wanted to go home. They're evidently immortals who couldn't leave until one died, with the caveat that neither could kill the other. I'm not convinced that Jacob is the good guy in this, btw.
Why are so many actors from Deadwood also appearing on Lost?
common acting pool :-P
What is Ben's endgame?
Consider the religious overtones of Lost (especially since the "Lost Supper" pic showed up from ABC ... with Sayid in the Judas seat!!!) Ben was Jacob's last and favorite son.
who the heck is Richard and why does he never age?
Richard said he didn't age because of Jacob. Most likely he went in the water when it wasn't turbid, or he's an "incarnation" like Smokey impersonating Locke, only with Jacob. It's pretty clear he was on The Black Rock.
Why did Walt have super powers?
The whole Claire and Aaron thing and why she was supposed to raise her baby and no one else?
You're assuming the psychic told the truth. It's just as likely that the psychic knew the plane would crash and that Claire was supposed to be on it, so he told her what she needed to hear to get her on the plane. (Ever notice how often those "extra" names are repeated on the show in the backstories of each character?)
What is the deal with the time traveling?
It has to do with the pocket of EM energy on the island.
Destiny or free will?
A little bit of both, and how the one impacts the other.
What is Daniel Farraday's connection to all this? And will they bring him back? I hope so.
"Farraday" is one of those lovely heavy handed physics references they use so often.
How is it possible that Hurley hasn't lost any weight?
He eats everything with a Dharma label on it
What the heck is The Island and how on earth can it be moved in time by a wooden wheel?
It wasn't moved by the wheel. It was moved by turning the wheel, which knocked it out of sync. Wood is a non-conductor, so long as it was where it was supposed to be, the energy field stayed static.

Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Posted: February 15th, 2010, 12:25 pm
by abc
Owlandsparrow and Josin: thanks! I knew some of these things probably came out, but I get easily overwhelmed so I put them away in the part of my brain that is for too hard, can't handle material. IKEA directions also go there along with any math harder than addition.

Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Posted: February 15th, 2010, 1:15 pm
by Lynn
Kate-centered episodes are always the most boring. I'm hoping for something better this week; I was actually bored with last Tuesday's offering.

Did anyone recognize Jacob from "Dexter"?

Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Posted: February 16th, 2010, 5:19 pm
by Aimée
I knew I recognized Jacob from somewhere so I looked him up and discovered he was from Dexter (another show which I love).
Also, has anyone ever read the book "The Heart of Darkness" by Joseph Conrad? It bares many similarities to the show, and it's really intriguing.
Man this show is my life. I watch it religiously. It's ind of sad. But it has inspired some ideas for stories and such. The characters are very well developed and stick to their personalities strictly, which is pretty odd for such a complex show with so many characters.
It has got to be alternate realities, but my original theory was actually that the plane scenes were flashbacks that didn't happen yet (like they had to time travel again and live part of their lives over again while knowing what could happen but they have choices to change what happens — note Charlie saying that he "was supposed to die" to Jack on the plane and all the strange long looks they keep giving each other) but that didn't make sense once I realized that there were quite a few dead people that would have to come back to life... So it's definitely an alternate reality.
And I am so excited for the Sun and Jin reunion!

Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Posted: February 16th, 2010, 11:43 pm
by THB
So? The island is the place where the Devil (in whatever incarnation they ultimately decide to go with) is imprisoned to protect the rest of the planet from him?

Who is the new kid?

Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Posted: February 17th, 2010, 8:34 am
by abc
Look, names written in chalk on a cave!


The new kid looks a lot like Jacob.

I liked not Locke's little speech to Richard. "I would have never done that to you." I guess we can think of it as Faith (what Richard and the others have). And non-Locke saying, "what's the point? all these rules and games? for what?"

Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Posted: February 17th, 2010, 8:44 am
by Josin
Why wasn't Kate on the wall? Smoke-Locke pointed out everyone but her (and pointed out both Kwons).

Why can't Smoke-Locke get out of "Locke form"? Illana said he was stuck in that shape now.

If that kid was Jacob, then it only makes me more convinced that Jacob isn't the good guy. That kid was creepy. He told Smoke-Locke that "we" can't kill them, so they're on even footing somehow. And there's definitely something going on with him that Sawyer could see him and Richard couldn't.

I hated Richard in this, too. The whole scene with him and Smoke-Locke was stupid - he kidnapped him just to let him go????? Then instead of just telling Sawyer Smoke-Locke was some big bad thing (if he is the "bad" one), he stumbles over words and tries to get Sawyer to go with him for no reason? Bleh. Out of character.

And I guess sideways Locke and his dad aren't on the outs since dad was coming to the wedding. If dad didn't shove Locke out a window, then why's Locke in the wheelchair?

Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Posted: February 17th, 2010, 10:58 am
by maybegenius
Josin wrote:And I guess sideways Locke and his dad aren't on the outs since dad was coming to the wedding. If dad didn't shove Locke out a window, then why's Locke in the wheelchair?
Which would mean, presumably, that Locke's father isn't a conman, and never destroyed Sawyer's family? Hm.

Kate's name wasn't on the wall, and neither was Claire's. Or Rose/Bernard, or Miles. So they apparently aren't "candidates" to take over protection of the Island, which brings up the question... then why are they still here?

I assumed the kid was some Island manifestation of Jacob, as well.

So clearly the Losties' lives have turned out the same in some ways, and very different in others. Is that because they never had Jacob's influence to "push" them to the Island?

Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Posted: February 17th, 2010, 11:01 am
by Josin
I think maybe Island Boy is Desmond and Penny's son.

Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Posted: February 19th, 2010, 6:46 pm
by annerallen
All these theories are so fascinating. Obviously a lot of people watch TV with a sharper eye than I do. But I'm totally taken with the Egyptian theories posted here: That goddess statue sure looks Egyptian--and if she's the goddess of childbirth, that's brilliant. That makes me think the Horus/Set (and the Judaic version, Jacob/Esau) theory makes the most sense for Jacob/smoky-Locke-guy. Wasn't the actor who originally played him sort of hairy? I remember the quote "my brother Esau is an hairy man, and I am a smooth man," from the old comedy routine. If this actually all comes together, it's a brilliant piece of writing. Hell, it's brilliant anyway. Look at all these writers obsessed with it.

Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Posted: February 19th, 2010, 10:42 pm
by Josin
maybegenius wrote: Kate's name wasn't on the wall, and neither was Claire's.
Littleton was on the wall, but it could very well mean Aaron and not Claire. Just like Kwon could mean Ji-Yeon (I don't think it does, but it could). I'm pretty sure "Rousseau" from the wall is Alex and not Danielle. It seems like kids born on the island are special.

Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Posted: February 20th, 2010, 11:06 am
by maybegenius
Josin wrote:
maybegenius wrote: Kate's name wasn't on the wall, and neither was Claire's.
Littleton was on the wall, but it could very well mean Aaron and not Claire. Just like Kwon could mean Ji-Yeon (I don't think it does, but it could). I'm pretty sure "Rousseau" from the wall is Alex and not Danielle. It seems like kids born on the island are special.
Was it? I must have missed that!

Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Posted: February 22nd, 2010, 12:35 am
by Sam
As a first time poster let me begin by saying hello to the admin and members of a very intriguing board, intelligent discussion is somewhat of an oddity on some of the boards that infest this new world we call online.

I, myself am nothing more than a diary writer, but in the context of modern literature that budding accomplishment I'm growing ever more proud of by the day. Although in finding this board I'm most certain that browsing for information on publishing and acquiring an agent speaks for itself. But no less I digress...

This game we call Life, I mean Lost...

First of all if we're to buy into the hype the concept of Lost was written from back to forward with the ending being completed first and the "rest of the story" being complied as in "the ends justifying the means". That is to say when we have a wonderful ending we just have to make the beginning and middle to arrive at the destination. Another bite at the hype is that most of the character parts where created or changed by the writers to fit the personalities of the actors who auditioned for the show, in which the case could be made that the particular characters/cast weren't as critical to the plot as would be with most productions.

Jack the doctor was to die in the first few episodes as in the person who could help others but couldn't help themselves, but through the likability of the actor and the part, Jack survives to this very day. How would Lost have changed if Jack had died as he was meant to?

The part of Sawyer was written in after he tried out for a different character, Hugo was also scripted in for his oh so larger than life persona, many such changes were made in the original ideology of "the beginning" of the lost children,(as I refer to the merry band).

Next a brief look at the plot or lack there of... Have you ever heard, "The devil is in the details" could you think of a better example? How many plot features have lurched out of the jungle to attack yet vanished in the proverbial "puff of smoke", just too many to list in the five seasons we've witnessed so far. So by a necessity of deduction we could surmise that plot if described as so is another aspect of Lost that might not be as crucial to the story as it might be in other, Stories.

So now we're left with a creation in which character formation and plot aren't the driving force of the work and if that is the case just what is it that drives the phenomenon we all have come to hold so dear? Could the actual title of the series give us a slight hint, maybe, just maybe it isn't the individual on the island that are indeed lost, maybe it might just be the viewers that are described by the label?

But let's look at just what we do know..

An airplane crashed on a remote and relatively uncharted island, on this island an isolated group known as the Dharma initiative has set up a grouping of stations in which subjects are asked to perform all types of random or odd tasks and the survivors of the crash share the island with the group they define as "the others" a group that have inhabited the island for an indeterminate length of time.

Dharma we find has a good number of meanings, but as I see it, the stations are more of a type of isolation tank system in which the isolated individuals are monitored by others who are themselves being monitored and so on and so forth, for if we notice the station that watches the swan files reports that wind up just laying on the jungle floor almost as if the reports themselves are unimportant.

Which brings us to the point in which I believe one of the driving forces of the show revolves, symbolism. And, this use of symbols seems to be multidimensional to where the swan represents another station in the observation of individuals isolated with tasks to perform and also represents a control system of the island itself and its special electromagnetic powers. So, although the activities of the swan are ever so important to control the island it also symbolizes the repetitive nature of the world in which we live as 9-to-5ers were we all have our little jobs to do, buttons to push, and as the case if one little button pusher doesn't do their job the system as a whole could break down.

But then again the swan also introduces us to the symbols we will be subjected to through out the series, for we notice that when the buttons aren't pushed Egyptian symbols start to flash and for those fast enough and whom have knowledge of hieroglyphics find out that if the buttons aren't quickly fixed that indeed the ancient Mayan savior will soon return. Now why the Dharmans would warn us about this Mayan return in Egyptian hieroglyphs, maybe has to do with the wonderful ending we're all looking so forward to. But...

First and foremost Lost is a story of isolation and interconnectivity just like we experience in "real" life but it is driven by the many symbols hidden in an underlying theme, just as our collection of memories drives the backdrop of our experience.

But let's flash forward for the sake of chaos..

Did you know that the reason some are lead to believe that the man with no name is Esau? Well, there is the whole Jacob reference for those needed of the obvious, but what about the only baby born on the island, Aaron, the first priest of the Jewish temple in the desert, what about the reference of the tribe of Benjamin as in Linus (the one who takes children from their mothers in Greek mythology) if you didn't catch that. I of course, in all my "infinite wisdom", know that through the psychological nature of the island Jacob is a representation of the super-ego and Smokey is in fact the ID, but that's another subject.

Dreams... Oh, another quick flashways, did you notice that in the temp office where Locke was applying for a new job that there were two posters on the wall with "dream" in the title and that the ten year old Ben gave the book "A Separate Reality" to Sayid when he was locked up, that's right a ten year old giving a copy of Castaneda to a Muslim behind bars, but that another reference to dreams. Have you noticed that not many weird stories don't have the dreaded dream sequence?

But back to the old four toes statue that houses the "well of souls" in which Jacob is cast into. Everyone knows for sure that Taweret is the protector of children but why does she have a crocodile head, she's a hippo for goodness sake, that because she in many references carries Sobek on her back, another symbiosis reference.

Black and white rocks you say? Are we going to play Othello do you ask? No? Why? Don't you realize that with every placement of a white or black chip all the adjacent chip are changed, in color? For every action there usually an inappropriate reaction. Like everything in the world is diametrically opposed, yeah right.

Why is Hurley's luck so bad, I mean good, before or after the incident? Maybe because he was so far away it impacted him more. Didn't everyone's story change after the incident, oh yeah, that's right, we don't know what would have happened to them before the plane crashed if it didn't. And,the numbers that prove to be ever so important, a lottery ticket number, a hatch serial number, a radio code and writings on a cave ceiling, all were given to Hurley by a patient in a mental ward.

So, following me so far?

Well then you'd realize that Hanso is really Hanzo a Ninja assassin and that Dojen, whom wrote " Treasury of the Eye of the True Dharma" needs protecting by a powerful organization even if it's spelled wrong. And no, he didn't make Bill's sword, yet. That's a different timeline. Funny that we now have an Asian protecting a Mayan pyramid that holds the "Fountain of Youth" in the show though, huh? Wouldn't it be funny if the ship De Soto used was named the Black Pearl, huh? Would you really be surprised if Jack Sparrow showed up riding turtles, his compass does always point to where he wishes it to and Sawyer would really like some rum. OK, maybe that's pushing it a bit, Sawyer seems to have found an unlimited supply of his own. But yes again I digress...

So now, Jack's father is dead and Jack's fathers shoes are dead and Locke is dead, so which one has the shoes and, should Locke's coffin be underwater? Jack sparrow was saved by a floating coffin right? Makes no sense you say, what if I told you that "the island" and Davy Jones locker where in fact the same place, would that help? Prolly not!!

Lightheartedness is a virtue...IMHO.

Just think about this, before the survivors crashed they knew nothing of the island, but the six of them that left they remembered the island for they had to lie, Ben leaves the island and winds up in the desert and remembers the island, after the incident the ones who never crashed know nothing of the island and neither does Ben the school teacher. Who knows about the island and remembers it in "the real world" and who is on the island but we see them in the real world and they don't know about the island? You'll find later in the story that everyone is in the real world at one time or another, but who knows and who doesn't, all but the great un-named one.

Oh yeah the great un-named smoke monster actually has a name, believe it or not, it's Cerberus, but in this case it doesn't refer to the guardian of the underworld as you might think. Cerberus is a reference to The Chamber of Secrets, that's right, Jack is a mental avatar of Harry Potter and the dark lord (kidding)... But just think, Chamber of Secrets, volcanic island, caves and tunnels, ancient runes and ruins, magic/insane/radio numbers (that remind me of Jim Carrey for some reason), all these things can only lead to one conclusion and that's.. Dang-it my soup is boiling over, I'll have to finish this in a bit...


I Lost my train of thought...oopsie.

Believe it or not you could guess the ending with the few clues I've mentioned here, but being vague is the true heart of the non-spoiler.

Just remember that because things take place in the subconscious it doesn't mean that they are a dream and that reality may be more than it actually seems.

What about a question you might or might not be asking yourself, did "the incident" or Jacob being cast into the well of souls muddy the water of the new temple?

I'm going long so seriously..

Lost like many of the movies and TV shows we're starting to receive are all part of a growing understanding of the conscious and subconscious realms that have illuded us for many years, the term I like best is higher awareness. This in fact is the area that my work pertains too, but to a much deeper level. What draws us to these entertaining stories is a knowledge that we all have at our core, some are using this to edge us further in our collective path, others are using it to raise their financial bottom line. I do hope Lost is in the first category. From what I've seen of all the works no one seems to have a complete picture yet, so we are usually left wanting more.

From far back as the shamanistic religion of the Cro-magnon or the pantheons of ancient Gods to the newer movements of science through philosophy or psychology we are in a state of constant evolution both personal and societal. The breaking of the world in true electromagnetic insight and its effects on us as individual or as a collective will be the next step in human evolution. I believe for one that the time of this cosmic cross roads is nearing at a rapid pace, I also believe we all can feel this "change" as it approaches.

Through the works of individuals of the past like Socrates and Homer, Asmov or Lewis, Freud, Jung or Einstein another brick is laid in our path. As writers we are given the opportunity to create our own bricks for each of our stories are unique and each have their place even if it's on a personal level. So keep watching and keep writing and you'll be the better for it.

Sweet Dreams and Iced Creams!!


P.S.... If you scared of a bad ending just imagine this. Something crazy happens, the island disappears, everything fades to white but slowly an image comes to focus and Vincent opens his eyes, shakes his head, walks over to his bowl and starts to drink.

Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Posted: February 26th, 2010, 11:36 am
by abc
I don't know why Jack has to be such a jerk to Hurley. Hurley is the greatest!

Also, Claire really needs a brush.

That was the best part of last week's episode--Creepy Claire and her "friends".

Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Posted: February 26th, 2010, 8:32 pm
by miahayson
abc wrote:
Hurley is the greatest!

Also, Claire really needs a brush.
Lol, I totally agree. That was, in fact, one of the first things that ran through my mind when I saw Claire this week - in all that time she couldn't find something to pass through her hair? But then again, I think it does add to her gone-mental look quite nicely...

I love Hurley too, he says the most awesome things :~)

My two favourite quotes from the last episode? Why, they're from Hurley of course...

1. Okay, it's bad enough you already made me write too much stuff and I just lied to a samurai. If you have any idea how to get Jack to go on your little adventure, I'm listening, dude.

2. You know, you and me trekking through the jungle, on our way to do something that we don't quite understand. Good times.