Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Because that novel isn't going to delay itself
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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by owlandsparrow » February 11th, 2010, 5:41 pm

@maybegenius - Good point about the submarine. My only thought about that is that we know that Ethan was still on the Island when he was older, both as a young boy (we saw him with Ben when they kidnapped Rousseau's baby) and as a man (most everything else we've seen of him). Seems most likely that he didn't leave on the submarine like Miles, though it's entirely possible he left and came back later. (By the way, I checked out your blog: I agree. Pacey trumps Dawson.) ;)

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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by Josin » February 11th, 2010, 6:09 pm

The sonogram wasn't a mistake. Ethan tells her she's at 36 weeks. When Claire delivered Aaron on the island, she was at 32, so it's a month later. That means they're off the "number" schedule that was so twisted into everything.

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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by Nathan Bransford » February 11th, 2010, 6:56 pm

Josin wrote:The sonogram wasn't a mistake. Ethan tells her she's at 36 weeks. When Claire delivered Aaron on the island, she was at 32, so it's a month later. That means they're off the "number" schedule that was so twisted into everything.
Wow, interesting! So maybe that explains why they lost Jack's dad as well? Jack's a month late for the funeral?

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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by E McD » February 11th, 2010, 7:01 pm

The only problem with that is that Jack's mom (on the phone) didn't understand where the body went either. Seems like she would've said at that point that the body arrived four weeks before.

The sonogram thing is awesome though. I missed that Easter egg!

Did anyone catch the dharma station logo on the dolphin's tail in the season premiere? Best. Show. Ever.
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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by E McD » February 11th, 2010, 7:07 pm

Correction: shark's tail (sorry)
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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by maybegenius » February 11th, 2010, 7:18 pm

owlandsparrow wrote:@maybegenius - Good point about the submarine. My only thought about that is that we know that Ethan was still on the Island when he was older, both as a young boy (we saw him with Ben when they kidnapped Rousseau's baby) and as a man (most everything else we've seen of him). Seems most likely that he didn't leave on the submarine like Miles, though it's entirely possible he left and came back later. (By the way, I checked out your blog: I agree. Pacey trumps Dawson.) ;)
Hahaha, he so is.

RE: Ethan staying or not coming back, I'm assuming that since he was a baby at the time of evacuation, he didn't have much choice, but I'm not sure on that! It seems to me that the people born on the Island all felt drawn back to it - Ethan, Charlotte, Miles. They seemed to be connected to it in some way, even after they'd left.

Now Ben, on the other hand, was in the Temple with the Others at the time the bomb went off. So if the bomb is what sank the Island, that would mean Ben and the Others went kablooey.
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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by Steppe » February 12th, 2010, 9:44 pm

“One theory I read was that before the end, the characters on the island will have to choose to stay in that timeline, or meld into the "we didn't crash" timeline. Or, if not choose, they die on the island and come to inside their other timeline persona.”

The Island controls the outward world, and is used as a core.
To choose a binary solution causes death in one or both worlds.
Either or solutions fail; only a dual existence is possible once duality occurs.

The crash happened, it is irreversible. The island “Remembers” and refuses to
not allow it to happen. Defy The Island and you are punished.
The Island is a “Conscious Core” the characters are its sub personae

“Oooh. The Jacob/Sayid thing is an interesting thought..”

The Island is a tenfold subdivision for 110 divisions.

10 Primes

100 Sub-Primes

“All and all, so many questions raised. What was Desmond doing on the plane??

Desmond is... *THE KEY* character.

By turning the key he executed a system expansion extending The Islands (cores)
authority over its sub personas. Hence his falling off the ladder with the color red paint and ditching of his girlfriend as predicted by her older self who sold him the ring.

It was a mathematical certainty that he would trigger the expansion.

The expansion triggered the planes crash as the system of consciousness readjusted to new scale and new expanded volume limits of its authority as “Memory Agent”

”What really intrigues me is the whole Jacob v. black-smoke-guy thing....”

The Black Smoke is The Infinite Mind inquiring of the The Finite Mind-The Island

“ Which one is Good and which one is Evil?”

The Black Smoke protects The Island. With proper respects due to you in
my polite opinion good and evil would confuse the issue.
The Infinite Mind has accepted The Finite Mind-The Island as an ongoing concern
that engages in sub conversations with itself and its boundary with The Infinite

“Is it a Christ/anti-Christ thing?”

The Greek word “Christ” equals “the anointment” in common wording it means that
an anointed one is engaged in a legal legitimate conversation with The Infinite Mind known in Christian Dialect as “The Holy of Holies” sacred living untouched darkness.

For Catholics it is the being that sneaks into the golden house and “Transmutates”
common bread into the anointment during communion.

“ Is it non-denominational? “

It is a mulitdenominational transact master maintaining multiple lines of conversation and story telling to keep consciousness in motion.
The People on The Island are The Dreamers the other lifes are The Dreamed..
Whoever controls The Island is temporarily steering the “Eye of The Hurricane.”

“And what did black-smoke-guy mean about seeing Richard "free from his chains"?

That’s to long a sidebar. It would take three paragraphs to answer.
Richard's role is still in development. Maybe he goes to China and talks those crazy hippie Buddhists into lending us a few trillion dollars while we argue about “Lost” on computers.

(And why doesn't black-smoke-guy have a name?)

Black Smoke guy represents The Holy Ghost.
He is the sum total of all sub personeas and represents the competing interest
of The Whole Vs. The One or, The Mirror Vs. The Reflection

“Is Jacob the same entity as Christian,”

Good call. Jacob stole the lines of powered anointment from his brother “The Hunter”
Jacob is Jesus 777 times before the Holy Ghost –Black Smoke Guy nails him to the cross after defeating Jacob on each ten prime and one hundred sub primes.”

Jesus spoke the Royal Commandment “Love God Above All”
Christians worship “JESUS CHRIST” The stopping of Jacob from ruling the universe.

“and, if so, does that make Jack the son of God?”

Yes Jack is one of the four guardians of The Island,

“The son of the Devil?”

As written in the Prophet Daniel.
The Four outward faces of GOD

Ex. “Our shadows stronger than our souls” Led Zeppelin’s Stairway to Heaven

Christian theology states emphatically that The Devil is appointed by God
to rule over the world after “Fall From Grace,” ie: Plane Crash. Plane as Level.

“Are they both just the competing sides of humanity?”

The story is still in progress in the writers mind and the series seems to have been

The power keys seem to be.

Black Smoke
The Island
Ben Vs John Vs Jack Vs Desmond

Notice Charlie singing “Wonderwall” in the “Special Whiskey” episode involving
Desmond’s girlfriend named Penelope. PEN ELOPE.

They are dreaming/writing the story as they go along.
The Island and The Black Smoke are asserting their rights to write also.

Christians speculate that the Holy Ghost is alive and well and walked Jacob backward/Inwards to the Island the 777 times required to nail his ass to a cross
and enjoy doing it.

Thats why Christians worship “Jesus Christ”
and talk casually about Buddy Jesus and Jesus the Superfreaky Waterwalker.

The Holy Ghost won that battle decisively.

Understanding The Island helps to know the Book Of Enoch’s five level character.

The Elect One = Ben Timekeeper
The Lord of Spirits = Jack Referee
Son Of Man = John Records Keeper
Head Of Days = Desmond Starting Line

The Island serving as the inward unseeable face of god as a three fold being...

(Caps and non-caps are used in the bible like a computer code for the power transfer rates. LGA complete internal agreement.)

...we are fascinated by that the series presents also known in Enoch as:

Lord of Lords:
God of Gods:
King of Kings:
God of The Ages

The Island as a Finite Mind (Male) lighting up speaking to/penetrating with permission
The Black Smoke boundary between Infinite and Finite.

The solution to the problem is threefold

Move The Island
Expand The Island
Convince The Islanders to live in two places simultaneously.

“No Man is an Island” except the Holy Ghost.

In Christianity the only unforgivable sin is to mock the Holy Ghost.
Because whatever is sent into him returns instantly to the sender multiplied
by some unknown number. Reward and Punishment, Pain and Pleasure
are instantaneous. He is his thoughts.

Notice Christian and Jacob are now two beings trapped in a run down hut.

In The Bible the words “Behold Thy Son” are spoken only twice.

First when the power-anointment from core to boundary and boundary to core
is transferred from the being known as
Jacob to the new being known as Israel.
Who are both the same person with different names.

When Jesus is hanging on the cross he says to Mary
“Mother Behold Thy Son”
Transferring the power to the apostles known as John The Divine. “Lock – 5 “

A word search of a text file of the bible for that phrase produces those results.

Jacob attempts one final try to transfer control of the future.
The Holy Ghost regains full control of creation ... “The Island”

Life is a riddle aye. Its a well written show. Make that a double well please...

I think the (humor alert) real question is...

If “Lost” ever goes out of production will “Supernatural” be able to pick up the slack and fill the void so we can stop the end of the world for a few more lifes by being good little dreamers.

Row row row your hmmm.
Submarine Plane Boat??

Lets move the Island instead.


Story Symbol Keyline References.

John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt" is a traditional
children's song of obscure origin. Its lyrics are close variations of:

John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt,
His name is my name, too.
Whenever we go out
The people always shout,
"There goes John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt."

from: King James Standard

(Powerline transfer point-01)

27:22 And Jacob went near unto Isaac his father; and he felt him, and
said, The voice is Jacob's voice, but the hands are the hands of Esau.
27:23 And he discerned him not, because his hands were hairy, as his
brother Esau's hands: so he blessed him.
27:24 And he said, Art thou my very son Esau? And he said, I am.
27:25 And he said, Bring it near to me, and I will eat of my son's
venison, that my soul may bless thee. And he brought it near to him,
and he did eat: and he brought him wine and he drank.
27:26 And his father Isaac said unto him, Come near now, and kiss me,
my son.
27:27 And he came near, and kissed him: and he smelled the smell of
his raiment, and blessed him, and said, See, the smell of my son is as
the smell of a field which the LORD hath blessed: 27:28 Therefore God
give thee of the dew of heaven, and the fatness of the earth, and
plenty of corn and wine: 27:29 Let people serve thee, and nations bow
down to thee: be lord over thy brethren, and let thy mother's sons bow
down to thee: cursed be every one that curseth thee, and blessed be he
that blesseth thee.

(Power transfer point-02)

48:2 And one told Jacob, and said, (Jacob renamed as Israel)

Behold, thy son

Joseph cometh unto
thee: and Israel strengthened himself, and sat upon the bed.
48:3 And Jacob said unto Joseph, God Almighty appeared unto me at Luz
in the land of Canaan, and blessed me, 48:4 And said unto me, Behold,

(Power transfer point-03)

19:25 Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his
mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.
19:26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing
by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother,

Woman, behold thy son!

19:27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that
hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by Robert » February 12th, 2010, 10:29 pm

I think the timeline where they don't crash is also the timeline where they don't set off the bomb. The castaways were supposed to come the island and were supposed to set off the bomb. That's what Juliet meant when she said "it worked" after she died.This also allows each timeline to function without creating a paradox, which is the theory of time travel the writers seem to be following (e.g. Sayid tries to kill Ben when he's young but just ends up helping to create Ben), and to function independently.

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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by ryanznock » February 13th, 2010, 1:36 am

Nathan, thanks for giving me another place to ponder Lost. Right now my friends gather around weekly to watch the show, then spend an hour afterward complaining about how it's gone off the rails. (Consider, at the beginning of this season, the plane flew over the Dharma shark, Fonzie-like.)

But even if I'm disappointed with some elements, I still want to know how it's going to end. I can't come up with a possible ending that will actually satisfy me, though I really really hope it involves the main characters actually getting as interested in the mystery as I am. I enjoyed the characters' emotional arcs in seasons 1 and 2, and they generally had great writing, but as time went on it started to feel like treading water. We've got, what, 15 episodes left? I feel like it's time to move forward from constant tease show that works well for a serial format, and start resolving things.

If I got 80% through a mystery novel and the main characters still weren't even interested in solving the mystery, nor had ever encountered the antagonist, I'd be displeased.

(My personal theory, the island was an Atlantis-like or Garden of Eden-like place off the coast of ancient Egypt. Smokey was some sort of guardian entity. People tried to get to some secret power on the island -- maybe the exotic matter under the Orchid is the fruit of eternal life -- and so Jacob [or someone] set the island moving to protect it. Jacob ate of the fruit and so is immortal, and he actually wanted Smokey to kill him. It's necessary to accomplish something that they're both working toward. That's my best explanation for how Jacob acted at the end of season 5; he wanted Ben to kill him.

[Not sure what the 'loophole' is.]

Maybe the world ends 3 days after Jacob dies. Maybe the universe starts over. I'm having trouble coming up with something that provides the main characters with a challenge to overcome. I'm pretty sure the island's 'dormant' volcano is a Chekhov's gun. Of the possible antagonists on the show, I suppose Charles Widmore is the only 'villain' we care about defeating. Widmore wants immortality, but Smokey/Locke wants to destroy the island and free humanity from some sort of cyclical fate . . . thing.)

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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by Steppe » February 13th, 2010, 12:31 pm

I missed the early seasons.
Eventually I shall buy it in complete DVD form to study the plot layout
and story arcs.

The Sayid character is the complete insertion of the:

Boy In The Well

History plotlines.
A reactive force to the Ben Vs. John collision
for control of The Island.

With all their associated symbolic physics.

Sayid = Say I.D. = Say ID

(psychoanalysis) primitive instincts and energies underlying all psychic activity.

The last episode I caught was when Sayid and Ben
meet in a arc of time where he was followed from
L.A. aftrer a villian team killed his beloved fiance.

Ben had a really weird smile on his face when
the confrontation was over.


Sayid: They took the only thing I ever loved.
Ben: Stay out of this I only came to stop them from killing you too.
Sayid: Thats not fair. I am in this... Its my fight too.

Toy Model Physics Ex.

Strangeness Correlation:
A Clue to Hadron Modification in Dense Matter?

The Hanbury-Brown Twiss (HBT) effect has been widely measured in heavy ion
collisions. It has been expected that the effect will give some clue to...

{ the size of the system at freeze-out.}

Another interesting topic in heavy ion physics is the
possibility of hadron modification in medium.
So far these two have been considered
as two different aspects of heavy ion physics.

The HBT effect is concerned with

{ freeze-out where interaction disappears,}

whereas the hadron modification is caused
by interaction. However, this picture is purely classical.
Since the HBT effect is of quantum nature,
we need quantum mechanical consideration.

In relativistic heavy ion collisions, freeze-out looks rather prompt.

The distribution of final state hadrons is, in most of the cases,
almost exponential [1] and this suggests that the system is almost
thermalized up to some time and then breaks up suddenly

[2]. Motivated by this, we have modeled freeze-out as follows.

The system remains thermalized until freeze-out.
Hadrons are modified due to interaction and their masses are shifted.

As a result,

{ it is dressed pseudo-particles that are thermalized.}

Then, freeze-out is assumed to take place suddenly.

In this paper, we investigate how this picture of freeze-out
is described quantum mechanically and how this scenario
is ascertained through the HBT correlation.

In Section 2, we present the theoretical framework of our work.
In Section 3, we show numerical results and give some discussion.
In Section 4, we conclude and give a perspective.

M. Asakawa and T. Csorgo 1996


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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by abc » February 13th, 2010, 7:21 pm

Steppe, I'm overwhelmed! Wow.

I'm going to officially stop guessing and, like life, just let it happen. Well, I say that now, but next Tuesday night I'll be coming up with theories just like everyone else. I have to say, I am frustrated with new developments because I'm ready to be winding down and solving mysteries, but I guess it wouldn't be Lost if it didn't keep introducing new head scratching elements.

My list of things that better be explained or else I'm gonna spit:
the four toed statue
the polar bear
what the dharma initiative was trying to accomplish
the lists
the numbers
why women can't have babies
what or who Christian is
the magic box or whatever that Ben once referenced (and how he brought Locke's dad)
Who is Jacob? And the guy in black?
Why are so many actors from Deadwood also appearing on Lost?
What is Ben's endgame?
who the heck is Richard and why does he never age?
Why did Walt have super powers?
The whole Claire and Aaron thing and why she was supposed to raise her baby and no one else?
What is the deal with the time traveling?
Destiny or free will?
What is Daniel Farraday's connection to all this? And will they bring him back? I hope so.
How is it possible that Hurley hasn't lost any weight?
What the heck is The Island and how on earth can it be moved in time by a wooden wheel?

Perhaps some have been answered and I'm just not bright enough to get it.

Breaking out in rashes, abc

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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by vacuumqueen » February 13th, 2010, 10:13 pm

ABC...you are totally my kind of LOST viewer. I feel exactly the same. I like to watch the show and let it unfold for me, but I do have the same kind of questions as you that just better be answered or else. I can't live on theory forever! And after reading Steppe's views, I'm "lost" even more. I guess I'm far more dumb than I thought I was. And if all that Steppe wrote is true I'll be bummed because I wouldn't be interested in that kind of a show! Ha!

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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by abc » February 14th, 2010, 6:26 pm

vacuum queen, I'm glad I'm not alone!

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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by owlandsparrow » February 14th, 2010, 8:13 pm

Josin - Love your observation about Claire being 36 weeks (as opposed to the original 32).

ABC - When you say you want to know about the Four-Toed Statue (I'm guessing that should be capitalized? Hmm.) do you mean you want to know what it is, or do you mean you want more info on its whole story? I'm definitely with you on wanting to know more about it - why it was there in the first place, how/why it got to be only a foot, etc. As for what it is, though, the producers have said it's a statue of Tawaret. I don't know much about Egyptian mythology, but from what I've read Tawaret is the Egyptian goddess of childbirth. As for the polar bears, I've always thought maybe Dharma was keeping them in those cages (where they kept Kate and Sawyer) so they could use them for experiments - perhaps with the frozen donkey wheel? (Hence the reason Charlotte found one in Tunisia, where Ben and Locke ended up after they pushed the wheel.) Anyway. Most everything else on your list, I so want to know, too.

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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by ChaseMarch » February 15th, 2010, 8:42 am

I really don't like what they've done with the show this season.

In season 1, Jack's dad seems to come back to life. He is seen in the very first episode and becomes a guiding character throughout the rest of the series. He interacts with more than just his son and helps Locke, and Claire.

When Locke came back to life on the island, it made perfect sense with what they had built on in the pilot. Locke had to come to the island in the same way Christian did. Ben said, "I knew this would happen" to Locke.

When it turned out that Locke wasn't really Locke, I was really angry. I wished they had kept the show grounded on Earth. I wanted to see the island as being a special place that was of Earth.

I've been reading a blog from someone who is just working his way through season 1 right now and he seems to think that the show is all about redemption. You can check out his thoughts here (just don't spoil anything for him as he is still watching Season 1) http://calvinscanadiancaveofcool.blogsp ... art-1.html or http://calvinscanadiancaveofcool.blogsp ... art-2.html

Calvin writes "Still on my theme of redemption and that they are all not really alive in the first place. Those who can't teach lessons are removed from the board like poor Arnz. When he went into the jungle they could have very well just put a red shirt on him because we all KNEW he was gone before the end of that episode. Again, that is lazy writing to introduce someone just to kill ten minutes later. I don't care. You could have accomplished the same thing by having Locke know a little something about dynamite and toss the bad stick away. But it was nice to see the bits rain down."

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