Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Because that novel isn't going to delay itself
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Josin
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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by Josin » May 11th, 2010, 10:21 pm

Wasn't tonight the biggest Oedipal mess you ever saw?

The whole MIB inception thing makes a twisted kind of sense with the physics aspects of the show. Matter decomposes as it approaches the speed of light, so if he passed through pure light, it separated the energy part of him from the matter part of him. Smokey is basically his spirit.

I want to know where Mama murderess came from, too - as well as why she's so bent on man=evil (and when did Jacob start living in Tawaret's foot?) Where did the temple come from? (the physical one with the spring, not the hole in the ground where Smokey lived)

Dead Locke inferred that part of the reason he was like was came from falling in love... so where's that coming from?

What's with the magic wine bottle that Smokey later smashed?

Why, if Mom said their purpose was to protect the light from men who would try and steal it did Jacob tell Richard that the island's purpose was to keep the darkness from escaping? (Anyone else get a "Mom tricked you" vibe? I think she orchestrated the whole thing so MiB would have to stay with the island as its "security system")

Why's Mr. Goody Goody the first one to attack and kill?

Did Mama Murderess really give MIB the game? Or was it another lie?

What kind of nutjob doesn't name their child???

What kind of nutjob doesn't have a name herself???

Why does Mama Murderess look so much like Rousseau?

Why is the rum gone.... oops, wrong series that went awry...

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abc
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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by abc » May 12th, 2010, 9:48 am

So that last episode was a pretty uncomfortable hour of television. I couldn't help but feel it was just silly. The light! From a cave! We all carry it in us. Blah blah blah.

And how is it that Jacob is so white and blonde? Did you see his mother?

And does smokey really not have a name? dumb.

And how on earth would that woman have kept those babies alive without breastmilk?

And I feel this whole thing doesn't really answer anything. It is just more vague mysteries.

Yes, I'll keep watching.

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Rick Daley
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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by Rick Daley » May 12th, 2010, 11:49 am

I liked the good guy / bad guy bait-and-switch between Jacob and the Man in Black last night. Richard et al are frustrated with Jacob because he won't provide answers, but it seems that Jacob has no answers to provide.

Back int he real world, one of the "leaked" spoiler documents was a casting call page found at a bar in Hawaii, and it defined a setting as Hell. Not a huge spoiler, IMO, because Richard told Jack he was dead and in Hell. Of course, we thought it a red herring at the time, but it could be true.

If so, it makes me wonder what role Charles Whidmore plays...is he like Charon, responsible for getting people to and from the underworld? He is the one who placed Oceanic flight 815 at the bottom of the ocean. It was his boat / helicopter the the Oceanic Six used to get off the island. When Locke turned the wheel and teleported off the island, he arrived under Whidmore's surveillance.

When the MIB killed his [adoptive] mom, she thanked him. When the MIB told Jacob he wanted to kill him, was the MIB wanting to do him a favor, and relieve Jacob of a burden that was unjustly put upon him? i took it as malice when that episode first aired, but the writers like to twist things around on us.

They still have a lot of esplanin' to do!

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Nathan Bransford
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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by Nathan Bransford » May 12th, 2010, 1:46 pm

I guess I'm not as surprised by others around the Internet who are realizing that there's no possible way they're going to be able to tie things together - that ship sailed in the opening of this season with the flash sideways. There was a full season's worth of explaining to do, and when they spent half of the opening developing further mysteries I had a feeling we were headed for ambiguity rather than resolution.

I was impressed by elements of this episode - I did like the way they were able to convey that the basic story keeps happening again and again, which is something that has been referenced again. There's a "protector" on the island seemingly passed from one person to the next, (Juno's mom then Jacob), outsiders coming to the island who want to control it (Jacob's mom's people, Dharma, etc.), and now smokey taking up residence in various dead people.

But there are still so many questions that it will make your head hurt thinking about it, and I have a bad feeling that they're going to stick to mythology and parables rather than giving specific answers. We've seen Jacob off the island, how does that work? Why does smokey want off the island? Why can't he just leave?

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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by Steppe » May 12th, 2010, 1:59 pm

All of my reservations were stated above by you guys.
I was left with Desmond in the well and his connection to "The Source"

Like the others he arrives by shipwreck.
Supposedly he served the Source's purpose by releasing excess energy.
He hasn't killed anyone; implying he can move/navigate from the center of the
circle to the outer boundary using the circle and point as borderlines between
the small infinite and the large infinite; without killing people.

Going slowly over season two an outer circle of plot development hinges
on the possession of the "Elizabeth" with that serving as an outer circle
surrogate for "Source". Even MIB claimed ownership of it in passing after
Desmond let Sayid use it for the recon before the great first turn of the key
in Season-2 two part finale.

After Hurley ditched his imaginary friend Dave a very Libby?/Elizabeth
looking girl politely confronts Desmond on his sailing needs and gives him the boat.
The boat was from her dead husband Dave.

I would have to check cast and actor listings by episode; and might depending
on where this goes. It was nice to get back story on Jacob and MIB but there
kind of out of the running for any ultimate explanations of the architecture
of how these cause and effect relationships govern themselves.

The key episodes seem to be "Live Together Die Alone" Season 2 last two.
If you want to rip the thing to shreds that would seem to be the key area
of vulnerability for very specific "already stated openly" plot malfunctions.

Like you all said they seem to have opened so many possible explanations
into past plot lines that only a super character dues ex machina suddenly
popping up as the boy from the machines center saying whoopsie did it again
solves it all out. Desmond <-> Aaron might be that worldline.

They do end every show with a boy chasing a naughty robot.

If they reveal that The Island resides inside the Sun and passage
through to it at proper angles is the Stargate and the Island and
the Stargate are the property of Desmond who has been sleeping
through life after life then I'll buy it... but that's a still bit cheesy.

I would prefer a time traveling Biker Jesus as opposed to Sailor Jesus.
Cheeky monkey... I know.

Season 2 final double episode. (No subtitles allowed even on disks)

In the stadium scene
Jacks says he was a doctor.
Desmond says he was almost... a doctor once implying
he has full run double boundary access from center point
to outer circle until he shifted footing.

Penny and Desmond meet in the arena and agree to meet in the coffee
shop later which we never actually see and then Desmond meets the Libby/Elizabeth
look alike who gives him the boat after her husband *Davids* death.
Desmond David Hume is stated as his full name implying geometrically
he has gained control of the core with the placing of the virtual king
at center position on the chessboard. Plus Hurley offed imaginary *Dave* too.

key clue--------
Its very hard to catch in season two last episode but as he finds the letter
Penny hid in his favorite book that hew was saving as a special read until
he was sure he was dying there is a Yellow Triangle flashed briefly as the book
is opened and the letter falls "To Earth." It was hard to catch.

If any of you four need screen 3or4 shots of particular events S 1-7 PM me 4them.

Another peculiarity was Penny having a crew waiting for an "Anomaly" circa 2004 "40" days into Lost.
That and the elaborate hoaxing to get Walt & Michael off the Island. When they take his blood:
"See you in the funny papers."

Great stuff above good summations of open questions.
I pull this line of discussion into Adobe Acrobat and save.
A bunch of writers talking analyzing a bunch of writers etc good stuff.
Can't beat it... the inclusiveness of all possibilities dramatic & scientific.

I hope I don't get hung from the gallows but I believe/hope this is quality speculations.
Notice the magic key and dog tag next to the book on left.

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Rick Daley
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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by Rick Daley » May 12th, 2010, 2:06 pm

Is Smokey REALLY Jacob's brother, or is it no more Jacob's brother than it is John Locke?

It would be funny if they ended each episode like the old sitcom SOAP...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rUxKq7w6ec

Steppe
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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by Steppe » May 12th, 2010, 3:15 pm

Hope this works

Here's the key hidden in the end of S2 final episode just before Desmond's going to off himself

Image


The entire sequence is at this url: tap photos for full size.

http://groups.google.com/group/intrapha ... orum?hl=en


Symbol Summary minus blurbs.

Complete: I do believe.

Notes:
Islands Nature:
Foreshadow Events.
Film-1 Swan Orientation (Dr. Marvin Candle)
Book-1Turn Of The Screw
Film-2 The Original Incident (Eko Restored from Arrow St. Bible)
Book-2 The Third Policeman (Book In Armory)
Vision-1 Black Horse Kate Third Approach
Book-3 The Brothers Karamazov John x Jack x James
Book-4 Lancelot Ben x Desmond x Hugo
Book-5 Are You There God? It's Me, Margaret (Anna vs Sun)
Book-6 The Bad Twin
Film-3 Pearl Orientation (Dr. Mark Wickmund)
Book-7 Our Mutual Friend - Charles Dickens (2-4 E-Bands) (first by linear time clock)
Book-8 (Proposal) IOORA - Racing Notice
Final Vision
Great Horned Owl- As Native Traditional "One Must/Shall Die"
Hugo: "Did that bird just say my name?"
James Ford: "Yeah it did. Right before it crapped gold.



Current Posits:
New Axiom Drilled Downward As:
Device = Dual Yellow Triangle Formation Early Stage
Device = Black Triangle Incoming Outgoing Worldlines:
Three Horse Vision Geometry
Daniela Kate [] 3X Horse [] Alex as wellspring
Protects
Clair Libby Charlotte
Elois Penny Juliet Five/Six Labeled Stations
Swan Arrow Pearl
Stations S2 E-15
Swan Arrow (...) Arrow Swan
Verses
Arrow Swan -Incident- Pearl (...)
Chang - S2 E03
Chang S2 E21
Chang S4 E(123) (Chang Film)
Season-405 (Kerr Metric Equation)

Swan Arrow Pearl
Clair Echo Yemi
Aaron Libby Charlotte (aussie psi frauds daughter)


Gap Struggle
Black Vs Yellow
Walter Vs Aaron

MIB - Boat - Desmond
Vs
Libby--Elizabeth - Penelope

Keystone Death
Boone Shannon Anna Libby
Two HI Powered Yellow & Black Lines

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FK7
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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by FK7 » May 18th, 2010, 9:33 pm

Rousseau with hygiene and makeup... that's quite a sight!

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Josin
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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by Josin » May 18th, 2010, 10:37 pm

Anyone else starting to feel like the writers are in a room somewhere collectively shouting "SYKE!" about, oh I don't know, EVERY plot point set up so far over the last 6 seasons?

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FK7
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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by FK7 » May 18th, 2010, 10:39 pm

They'll have a lot to answer for in 2 hours on Sunday, but like Nathan said, I think J.J. Abrams might have to disappoint us for the first time, with semantics and half-baked answers.

I'm sure we'll have plenty of time to whine if we aren't happy after the finale :)

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abc
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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by abc » May 18th, 2010, 11:32 pm

What is Ben's game? Does he have an ulterior motive? Will the good in his life in the sideways reality seep into the Island reality? Because he is loved? My guess is that he'll be the one to kill Smokey.

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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by Steppe » May 19th, 2010, 12:58 am

I liked all the smooth killing; even the whispering instead of a speech.
Jack deciding he's ready to protect the light. Hohohohoho that's premium.
I think the Island might have been built as a prison for the light cloud being.
All the characters assume so much stuff; it seem ridiculous except for Jumping Jack Flash.
He knows the way.
Its a come to Jesus moment.
Something has to happen at the concert because Jack's time lines are not: 0=0 a=a etc etc.
Hurley tossed that imaginary David off the cliff a long time ago in "David" Season-2 Episode-18.

Ben and Smokie to the rescue.
Maybe it's a "Sphere" ending where the light just wants to go home.
I can't wait to see Jack(get)Hammered.

"Mars ain't the kind of place to raise your kids" Elton John

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Josin
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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by Josin » May 19th, 2010, 1:10 am

My favorite part of the episode had to be Ben. He was at his absolute best/worst and perfection in motion.

The one real surprise in sideways world was Ana Lucia. I was surprised to see her taking a bribe to release three prisoners. I guess she got the "Destiny" speech from Desmond as one of the people on the flight, but still.

Is Richard dead? Is Charles? Richard's a maybe immortal who thinks he can die if someone other than himself kills him, but who knows at this point. And if Charles does turn out to be the mysterious "Wallace - 108", then the island may not be "done with him" yet. He may be stuck like Michael was and unable to be killed until it is. Of course, even if he was a candidate, it was Ben who shot him, so there's no loophole saying Smokey couldn't kill him.

If he's dead, then the whole build-up to "they're coming" was another pointless plot move. Widmore and Zoe go down on the list of absurd and pointless moments. (Though considering that Zoe means life, there's got to be an intentional irony there somewhere.)

I'm really curious as to where Miles fits in all of this. As it stands now he's on his own in the jungle (unless he finds Richard wherever Smokey dropped him). Hopefully there's a real reason for him to be out there and not just another set up for a pointless death. (Maybe he can talk to MiB's real mom and she can talk some sense into him. )

I thought the mention of Alex's grave was a time waster, but I guess it was the writers' way of getting her death fresh in Ben's mind for the "he doesn't get to save his daughter" scene.

Still wanting to see Rose and Bernard at least one more time on the island.

Not sure where they're going with the ghost boys. Hurley saw both of them, I think. More weight for the "Smokey =/= MiB side of things, I guess. If he's got a ghost boy, then he's probably dead. Ghost boy Jacob needed grown Jacob's ashes to finish himself off, so maybe Smokey's been holding onto a "piece" of MiB all this time and the only way to kill him is to destroy it. (the ghost boys make me wonder if both Jacob and MiB hadn't been some kind of dead since they first saw the men on their island.)

I'd also like some hint as to when the various artifacts like the temple and statue were erected and by whom/for what purpose.

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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by Steppe » May 19th, 2010, 1:19 am

Micheal Emerson discussing his take on the ending with the NY Post.

http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/popwrap/m ... cgC0s2PxaM

Josin; I think the time travel effect was constant.
That the light is possibly the same being who crashed in the desert
and was captured by King David in some sort of way.
When actually it was like a loose quantum wire bundle-white hole-from a telephone pole
arcing out in the middle of nowhere connected all the way through the q-fabrics
to 1886?-1977?-2004? Broken in geometry shapes as opposed to linear ruler shapes.
Just a thought.

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Rick Daley
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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by Rick Daley » May 19th, 2010, 7:24 am

I don't know about you, but I would have been throwing a lot of wood onto Jacob's tiny fire.

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