Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Because that novel isn't going to delay itself
Steppe
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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by Steppe » May 5th, 2010, 4:53 pm

Never have I seen a bunch of killers switch loyalties so seamlessly.

I'm glad you guys mined all the gags already.
Only the final moment made sense to me with the writers
establishing the ultimate nature of Smokie and Clair's bond (or is that bomb.)

I have to rewatch on the web because things moved fast
and I never saw Lapidus and Ben wander offstage.
I cheered every characters death because in the end they can't make a stand
and stick to it (Sun and Jin doing it after it was to late) and there has to be
at least one character in every story who doesn't change his desire quest intentions.

Setting
0. Desmond's alive in the well.

Complications
1. Clair had a baby on the Island.
2. Smokie stuck by her even when everyone went time hopping.
3. An access point closed when the sub sank and only the plane remains.

I got my character pay off but agree it was as hysterical as a Shakespearean
Mr. Death rattles his chains, corpses begin piling up, characters look to heaven and say... "Why."

As to Kate's imminent death:
"Why didn't she bring Aaron back to her mother.????"

Aaron is the only *ghost of Islands future* that pisses Smokie off
foreshadowing continuous confinement on the Island unless Aaron is dealt with "legally".

Current conclusion: Smokie kills everyone except Clair
or kills everyone except Clair Desmond Ben and Lapidus then get on the plane
returning them to civilization; each understanding no one would believe their story.
Smokie finds his way back to the Island where he can be a weirdo living in peace with
the range of happy bored and miserable beings currently out of body in The Dead Zone of EM Fields.
It depends on who brought Desmond to the Island; Jacob or MIB.
I think it was MIB because his boat was named "Elizabeth."

That would be weird if MIB is Shakespeare trapped by Old Testament Jacob.
In the Island's writing teams strange use of foreshadowing and trading theme references
that might actually as an explanation for MIB birth or journey to the Island.

The side story between John Locke and Jack Shepherd ended with
Locke accepting responsibility for flying his father into *Catatonia*
resolving the 3Vs1 pop mythology template overlays of famous pop figures.
Dylan Lennon Hendrix Vs Mystery Tramp... /Smokie/Holy Ghost/Satan etc etc as archetypes.

Smokie won that battle When John refused to turn back with Jacks help.

Anthony Cooper Locke's dad as Dielectric acronym. Ant Honey Barrel Maker.
The being who creates division between beings so they are seperate entities
that live within proximity of an ant hill that resides under a bee hive;
instead of intermingled conscious clouds: without bodies in the land of the dead.

Until the bee hive/interloper, *Falls* onto the giant ant hill.


Smokie as Catatonia
A form of schizophrenia characterized by a tendency
to remain in a fixed stuporous state for long periods;
the catatonia may give way to short periods of extreme excitement

Clair as The Island
Smokie and Clair, they make a nice couple. Bonnie and Clyde move over.
Bernie and Rose are still out there... sorta kinda mostly to generate twists and turns.

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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by Steppe » May 5th, 2010, 9:39 pm

Qwik Note on foreshadowing season-2 episode-nine
Echo gives Locke this missing piece of film and view it.
Dr. Marvin describes on previous "*Incident*" when the
computer code was not entered because computer was busy.

Islands Nature
Foreshadows Events

Film-1 Turn Of The Screw
Film-2 The Original Incident
Black Horse Third Approach

Aside: Kate's doppelganger The Black Horse appears for 3x time

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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by ryanznock » May 5th, 2010, 10:56 pm

I'm so thankful the people on this messageboard agreed with me that last night's episode was very disappointing. Reading the outpouring of adoration elsewhere, I felt like I was taking crazy pills.

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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by Steppe » May 6th, 2010, 4:23 pm

It felt like writing by committee.

The ones scheduled to die should have been on the sub
and it goes down without survivors and we know at the last moment
that Smokie used the watch to do in those character world lines.

I would have done it like that.
Kill them like they killed other characters without the cheap sentimentality.



Story Notes Below:


Islands Nature:
Foreshadows Events

Film-1 Turn Of The Screw
Film-2 The Original Incident
Black Horse Third Approach
Book-3 Lancelot Ben x Desmond x Hugo

Current Posits:
Device = Black Triangle Incoming Outgoing Worldlines:
Device = Yellow Triangle Formation Stages: New Axiom

Drilled Downward as:

Daniela Kate [] 3X Horse [] Alex as wellspring
Protects
Clair Libby Penny Juliet: Elois? as Five labeled Stations

------------------
Stations S2 E-15

Swan Arrow (...) Arrow Swan
or
Arrow Swan -Incident- Swan Arrow
------------------

Lancelot (novel) Percy Walker
Lancelot is a 1977 novel by the American author Walker Percy. It tells the story of the dejected lawyer Lancelot Lamar, who murders his wife after discovering that he is not the father of her youngest daughter. He ends up in a mental institution, where his story is told through his reflections on his disturbing past. The novel compares the protagonist unfavorably to his namesake, Sir Lancelot, as he experiences a vision of an empty modern American culture which invokes the symbolism of the mythical Wasteland.[1] Lamar's quest to expose this moral emptiness is a transposition of the quest for the Holy Grail; as he witnesses and records the increasing moral depravity of his wife and daughter during the filming of a Hollywood movie, he becomes obsessed with and corrupted by the immorality he seeks to condemn.[1] The novel is replete with Arthurian references and references, including characters based on Merlin and Percival.[1]

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Sub Ref.
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Percival
In the earliest story about him he is connected to the grail. In Chrétien de Troyes' Perceval, the Story of the Grail, he meets the crippled Fisher King and sees a grail, not yet identified as "holy", but he fails to ask a question that would have healed the injured king. Upon learning of his mistake he vows to find the Grail castle again and fulfill his quest but Chretien's story breaks off soon after, to be continued in a number of different ways by various authors.

In later accounts, the true Grail hero is Galahad, Lancelot's son. But though his role in the romances had been diminished, Percival remained a major character and was one of only two knights (the other was Sir Bors) who accompanied Galahad to the Grail castle and completed the quest with him.

In early versions, Percival's sweetheart was Blanchefleur (White Flower)and he became the King of Carbonek after healing the Fisher King, but in later versions he was a virgin who died after achieving the Grail. In Wolfram's version, Percival's son is Lohengrin, the Knight of the Swan.

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Sub Ref.
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Fisher King (Locke vs Jack) As (John vs Jesus) as (Pop CultureHero1 vs Pop CultureHero2)

The Fisher King, or the Wounded King, figures in Arthurian legend as the latest in a line charged with keeping the Holy Grail. Versions of his story vary widely, but he is always wounded in the legs or groin, and incapable of moving on his own. When he is injured, his kingdom suffers as he does, his impotence affecting the fertility of the land and reducing it to a barren Wasteland. Little is left for him to do but fish in the river near his castle Corbenic. Knights travel from many lands to heal the Fisher King, but only the chosen can accomplish the feat. This is Percival in the earlier stories; in the later versions, he is joined by Galahad and Bors.

Confusingly, many works have two wounded Grail Kings who live in the same castle, a father and son (or grandfather and grandson). The more seriously wounded father stays in the castle, sustained by the Grail alone, while the more active son can meet with guests and go fishing. For clarity, the father will be called the Wounded King, the son the Fisher King where both appear in the remainder of this article.


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Sub Ref. Swan Station
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Knight Of The Swan (Ben vs Group) as (The One vs The All)

The story of the Knight of the Swan, or Swan Knight, is a medieval tale about a mysterious rescuer who comes in a swan-drawn boat to defend a damsel, his only condition being that he must never be asked his name. The earliest variants of the story appear in French chansons de geste attached to the family of Godfrey of Bouillon, the first ruler of the Crusader Kingdom of Jerusalem. Later, the German poet Wolfram von Eschenbach included a version in his Grail epic Parzival. Wolfram's version inspired two later romances and the opera Lohengrin by Richard Wagner.

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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by Steppe » May 6th, 2010, 5:44 pm

Story Notes Below:


Islands Nature:
Foreshadows Events

Film-1 Turn Of The Screw
Film-2 The Original Incident
Black Horse Third Approach
Book-3 Lancelot: Ben x Desmond x Hugo
Book-4 Are You There God? It's Me, Margaret (Anna vs Sun)

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Book Ref:

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Are You There God? It's Me, Margaret. 1970 by Judy Blume

It was featured on the ABC television show on Lost on Season 2 episode 16 "The Whole Truth". One of the survivors, Sawyer, was reading it.


The main conflict in the novel comes from Margaret's need to settle her mixed religious heritage. She also deals with her issues of belief in God, as the story is frequently interlaced with her praying by beginning with the title's words. In school, she is assigned a year long independent study project, to which she chooses a study on people's beliefs, which proves to be more than she can handle as she is finding a lot about herself as well. She also is dealing with conflict between her grandparents on both sides of her family, as her maternal grandparents are trying to guarantee that she is indeed Christian as she was born with a Christian mother. Margaret enjoys spending time with her paternal grandmother, who seems to accept her for who she is and is more accepting of her son's interfaith marriage, although she has referred to Margaret as "my Jewish girl" and introduced her to synagogue services, but more for the purpose of showing her granddaughter what the Jewish faith entails. The ambiguities of her interfaith identity are particularly highlighted in a scene – following a heated argument with another girl – in which Margaret visits a church, finding her way to the confessional booth; there in, the unseen priest inquires as to her problems, but – believing at first that the priest is God himself speaking to her, and moreover not comprehending the concept of Christian confession or its confidential nature – she simply responds "I am sorry", before running out of the church in tears.

Blume's success with Are You There God? It's Me Margaret inspired her to write another book, Then Again, Maybe I Won't, which this time deals with Tony Miglione, a boy of the same age as Margaret who is dealing with puberty as well, although his transition from childhood to adulthood is obviously quite different from Margaret's.

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Sub Ref:

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"Are You There God? It's Me, Jesus" is episode 47 of Comedy Central's animated series South Park.
It was originally broadcast on December 29, 1999 and featured the then-nearing end of the second millennium A.D.
The episode's title is a pun on the book Are You There God? It's Me, Margaret.

As 1999 is ending, Cartman discovers blood coming out of his anus, leading him to believe he is experiencing his first period. He taunts the other boys for not having hit puberty yet, unaware that his bleeding is caused by a minor stomach infection that has spread across South Park, and that it can be cured with antibiotics. Kenny later contracts the same ailment, and Kyle, not wanting to be left out, pretends he is also afflicted. The boys consequently abandon Stan and leave him out of their next mission, believing he is less mature for not having had his period.

Meanwhile, the people of the world flock around Jesus' house, excited about the Millennium and saying that, at the year 2000, Jesus's dad should make an appearance. Jesus contacts his father and tells him about his potential resurgence in popularity, but God (unseen in their conversation) says he will not show up because mankind is not ready. Jesus, wanting to still satisfy the people, books Rod Stewart to play a New Year's Eve concert in Las Vegas; everybody decides to go, because a rumor persists that God will show up.

Stan, meanwhile, prays for his period, but does not get it, so he visits Dr. Mephisto and gets a bottle of hormone pills. Using them causes Stan to grow a beard, have a deeper voice, and develop a pair of breasts, but still no "period." Afterwards, Kenny suddenly bursts from inside out. At the hospital, they discover that the source of all this was Kenny had shoved a tampon up his ass, causing him to explode. The doctor expresses concern that "the children are all shoving tampons up their ass because they've seen the Backstreet Boys doing it on TV or something."

The crowd in Las Vegas for the New Year's concert is enraged upon seeing Rod Stewart (portrayed here as very old and incontinent) and they turn against Jesus. With them preparing to crucify him again, Stan asks Jesus why God does not answer his prayers, and Jesus explains that, if God does everything for you, then your existence has no real purpose. Jesus realizes that this was God's message: Jesus had to figure his own way to get people to follow him. And just as he realizes this, God arrives.

After the crowd's initial shock over God's appearance (distinctly unlike traditional depictions of God), God offers the people the chance to ask one question. The crowd plans to ask the meaning of life or existence, but before anyone else can ask, Stan comes up and asks why he has not gotten his period. God explains that boys do not get periods, and tells the truth: that Cartman and Kenny are affected by the colon infection and Kyle was lying to fit in with them. God explains to Stan that he will never get a period (because he is a man with titties), but he will hit puberty when the time is right. He then returns to Heaven, saying he will answer another question in the year 4000. Stan is satisfied by this, and joyfully starts singing "Auld Lang Syne", but the angry crowd turns on him for wasting their chance to ask a very important question to God, while the credits roll.

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FK7
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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by FK7 » May 6th, 2010, 6:09 pm

You related to Yoda by any chance?

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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by Steppe » May 6th, 2010, 6:33 pm

Genre reference:
In reverse time travel fiction
the son is the father
and the father is the son.
Movement backwards to reach obscured clarity.


Key Episodes Season 2 (15) (16)

15-Maternity Leave
16-The Whole Truth

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Islands Nature:
Foreshadows Events

Film-1 Turn Of The Screw
Film-2 The Original Incident
Black Horse Third Approach
Book-3 The Brothers Karamazov John x Jack x James
Book-4 Lancelot: Ben x Desmond x Hugo
Book-4 Are You There God? It's Me, Margaret (Anna vs Sun)

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Book Ref:

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The Brothers Karamazov is a passionate philosophical novel that explores deep into the ethical debates of God, free will, and morality. It is a spiritual drama of moral struggles concerning faith, doubt, reason, and modern Russia. Dostoyevsky composed much of the novel in Staraya Russa, which is also the main setting of the novel. Since its publication, it has been acclaimed all over the world by thinkers as diverse as Sigmund Freud[2], Albert Einstein,[3] and Pope Benedict XVI[4] as one of the supreme achievements in literature.

Book One: A Nice Little Family
Book Two: An Inappropriate Gathering
Book Three: Sensualists
Book Four: Lacerations
Book Five: Pro and Contra
Book Six: The Russian Monk
Book Seven: Alyosha
Book Eight: Mitya
Book Nine: The Preliminary Investigation
Book Ten: Boys
Book Eleven: Brother Ivan Fyodorovich
Book Twelve: A Judicial Error

Epilogue...

The final section opens with an ambiguous plan developed for Dmitri's escape from his sentence of twenty years of hard labor in Siberia. Dmitri and Katerina meet while Dmitri is in the hospital, recovering from an illness before he is due to be taken away. They agree to love each other for that one moment, and say they will love each other forever, even though both now love other people. The novel concludes at Ilyusha's funeral, where Ilyusha's schoolboy friends listen to Alyosha's "Speech by the Stone." Alyosha promises to remember Kolya, Ilyusha, and all the boys and keep them close in his heart, even though he will have to leave them and may not see them again until many years have passed. He implores them to love each other and to always remember Ilyusha, and to keep his memory alive in their hearts, and to remember this moment at the stone when they were all together and they all loved each other. In tears, the twelve boys promise Alyosha that they will keep each other in their memories forever, join hands, and return to the Snegiryov household for the funeral dinner, chanting, "Hurrah for Karamazov!"



Structure

Although it was written in the 19th century, The Brothers Karamazov displays a number of modern elements. Dostoevsky composed the book with a variety of literary techniques that led many of his critics to characterize his work as "slipshod". The most pertinent example that comes across to the reader is the omniscient narrator. Though he is privy to many of the thoughts and feelings of the protagonists, he is a self-proclaimed writer, and characterizes his own mannerisms so often throughout the novel that he becomes a character himself. Through his descriptions the narrator's voice merges imperceptibly into the tone of the people he is describing. Thus, there is no voice of authority in the story (see Mikhail Bakhtin "Problems of Dostoyevsky’s Art: Polyphony and Unfinalizability" for more on the relationship between Dostoevsky and his characters). This technique enhances the theme of truth, making the tale itself completely subjective.

Speech is another technique that Dostoevsky employs uniquely in this work. Every character has a unique manner of speaking which expresses much of the inner personality of each person. For example, the attorney Fetyukovich is characterized by malapropisms (e.g. 'robbed' for 'stolen', and at one point declares five possible suspects in the murder 'irresponsible' rather than innocent). Several plot digressions provide insight into other, apparently minor characters. For example, the narrative in Book Six is almost entirely devoted to the story of Zosima's biography, which in itself contains a confession from a man Zosima met many years before who seems to have nothing at all to do with the events chronicled in the main plot.

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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by Steppe » May 6th, 2010, 6:35 pm

Don't start that Anna Kin stuff on me.


I'm Sgt Schultz:

"I know nothing"

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FK7
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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by FK7 » May 6th, 2010, 6:38 pm

Nobody is going to read this, it's deprived of sense, coherence or context... big copy/pasted of blurbs of texts really aren't appealing to begin with, when the content has no structure, no thank you.

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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by Steppe » May 7th, 2010, 8:44 pm

I'm sorry you feel that way.
I'm a professional; I'll take my chances.
You never know what insight might be uncovered in reverse.
Art

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FK7
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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by FK7 » May 7th, 2010, 9:57 pm

Well *I* did read it, that's how I came to the conclusion most people wouldn't... definitely some interesting insight, maybe some work on the form could help? ;)

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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by Steppe » May 8th, 2010, 1:58 pm

I'll get it cleaned up and add salient blurbs above each foreshadowing reference.
I got tangled up when they introduced the Brothers Karamazov and I had to go back
and re-insert it the linear progression.

Thanks for the advice.
The book title usage for foreshadowing is at a pause and they are
now entering the geometric symbol display foreshadows starting with Locke trapped
under the door viewing the ad hoc map only visible in blue/infrared.

I'm not rewatching on the web with the "enhanced" version I'm watching the
disks on netflix where I can get the subtitles.

I'm in the season-2 range of [ Lockdown - Dave - ? ] Episode 17- 20.
I'm profoundly serious about time travel fiction/quantum theory. The actual
quantum cartography mapping I do won't be relevant till the show's run ends.

I'm writing a similar series and have paused at the end of the third book so
as not to steal or borrow without knowing I am doing it. I didn't know it was
a time travel story until to late.
I was watching it be rerun on a sub network renting the old shows.

Thanks again for the heads up.

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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by E McD » May 8th, 2010, 7:39 pm

Avalon Ink wrote: So... I'll just come out and say it.... My wife and I think Jack is D.E.A.D. Dead. That explosion killed him, and F-Locke brought him back to life like Sayid. I was leery, but there's just enough of a jump cut after he hits the sand, and the way Locke welcomes him is juuust creepy enough to convince me. Or are we grasping at straws?
I thought/still kinda think the same thing - Jack could be dead. Why the hell not at this point? My husband totally disagrees with me, though.
-Emily McDaniel

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FK7
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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by FK7 » May 11th, 2010, 12:06 am

I frickin' knew it! Evangeline Lily is on Letterman now and she said "I DON'T THINK EVEN THE WRITERS KNOW THE WHOLE BACKSTORY!".

Confirmed! :D

Edit: She's quitting acting to... wait for it... write!

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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Post by FK7 » May 11th, 2010, 10:04 pm

Tonight's episode was great, certainly a lot better than last week's.

My issues with Lost at the moment is how inconsistent it is. I've been watching the show ever since the pilot, very avidly. It began as a survival/mystery show, then by season 4 it had moved on to fully fledged science-fiction show.

I've read and watched many commentaries by J.J. Abrams, enough to know he's not the kind of guy to "make stuff up as he goes". However, I still wonder if this isn't the case here. I think it's dangerous when you keep switching the "genre" or make us think you do… if anything, it annoys me.

Now we probably have 90% of the back story, but there are still MANY plot holes that need to be resolved, and there are only two episodes left.

-Where did the mother come from?
-What exactly is the island, or the energy. We know there's a "source" (anyone had a Matrix: Reloaded flashback?)
- How did MIB ended as Smokey? Magic? I understand he passed through "the core", but that doesn't explain ANYTHING!
-Where did the Others come from? Stranded ship passengers that came over the years I suppose?
-How did they even know how to build the wheel and that it would work? "I'm special" doesn't cut it. He didn't even know what a ship was 30 years ago.
-The mother obviously doesn't age, but since she's not their biological mother, how did the kids end up with that "power"? Anti-aging gene inoculation? She gave her son a cup, and said "Now, you and I are the same." I suppose that's how he ended up with immortality? Whatever there was in the cup… special island water?

So the mother was the oldest "candidate" we know, Jacob became the new one, and Jacob went on looking for the one that would replace him. That's fantastic! Now I'd still like to know why the island needs protecting in the first place, and I swear to God, if angels appear at the end, I will write another dialogue scene like I did last time, and it won't be pretty!

The "mother" is obviously insane, she murdered someone to keep the children "pure". Is that irony? YES IT IS! We can also assume she murdered all the Others and filled the well back up. You sure as shit ain't pure when you commit murder! "Do as I say, not as I do?"

I kept up with the show for six years, and the more time passed by, the higher my expectations went, because I was really hoping for a resolution that would blow my mind. With J.J. Abrams, you never know, but am I the only one with the feeling that two episodes won't be enough to clear all those plot holes?

I feel like if I don't get a proper resolution when it ends, for a show that sort of became an addiction for me, it will negate the entire experience. It'd be like if at the end of the Return of the Jedi, when Darth Vader removes his mask, rather than see a broken visage, it'd be a clown face, laughing at a disturbed Luke, saying, "It was all a joke! I ain't your daddy, Jar Jar Binks was!"

Maybe Lost was meant to be fantasy all along and the resolution will be, "IT WAS ALL MAGIC!" I sure hope not…

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