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Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Posted: March 31st, 2010, 1:35 pm
by Nathan Bransford
How do people feel about last night's episode? I have to say that the flash sideways still isn't working for me. Just not sure what we're supposed to be getting out of it. Even if they all add up in the end it's still a lot of "Yeah, we know"s about what their lives were like pre-island and how they might have ended up.

Even Sun's sudden inability to speak English was kind of a letdown. I thought maybe it was more than a bonk on the head, but then she can write it at the end?

Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Posted: March 31st, 2010, 2:35 pm
by owlandsparrow
I'm still enjoying the flash sideways. Actually, I'm suspicious of them; for some reason, I just have this feeling that they are actually flash forwards, somehow.

Even though we aren't sure why we're seeing the sideways world or how it will eventually tie in with the overall story, I'm still intrigued. It's definitely not just a "this is how their lives would have been had they not crashed" situation, given that so many details pre-crash are different. If it was just a "what-if," I think I'd be more disappointed. For now, I'm still intrigued and enjoying the sideways stories for what they're worth.

Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Posted: March 31st, 2010, 2:49 pm
by Josin
Sideways world IS NOT a "what-if". It's a concurrent thread of reality that branched off from the incident in 1977. It's happening at the same time as island world - which is why Juliet saw things working and not working simultaneously. In that moment she existed in both realities at once (and was going Dutch with Sawyer on top of it ;-) )

The flash sideways fits in with Widmore's warnings to Jin that their daughters would cease to exist along with everyone they care about. If Dead-Locke gets off the island, then sideways world overtakes island world. Considering the gut shot, Sun at the very least lost Ji Yeon, and most likely her own life. I'd guess that Widmore doesn't have Penny in sideways world, either.

Sun hitting her head, I'm pretty sure, was to demonstrate that Dead-Locke can't just take her with him - so he couldn't carry her off when she was unconscious. She has to go with him of her own free will - which makes Jin very important to all concerned. (And how awesome is Yunjin Kim as an actress to go from the full range of her character in one episode. The difference between the meek daughter of Mr. Paik at the bank, and the stalwart defender of Jin who told off Richard was amazing.)

My question is about the 6 people Ilana is supposed to protect.

Ilana may not know which Kwon is the right one, but Jacob certainly did, so why did he tell her there were 6?

And why, after Sayid's gone infected (unfeeling zombie that he is) does Ilana say there are still 6?

If Kate's not one of the candidates, then we've got a confirmed quartet of:


Assume that Ilana was still counting Sayid and you end up with 5 at most, so who is # 6? A wild card?

Lapidus, perhaps? Is that why Ilana's men brought him with them from Hydra Island, but left everyone else? Is that why he had to go back to the island with the Losties?

Or Miles? He uses Straum as a name, but his father's last name was Chang. And the first time he was seen, he made a point to tell Daniel NOT to use his last name. So, is he on the wall?

Or, did Jacob not give up on Ben?

(And LOL for Mikhail losing his eye when Jin shot him, though. That guy's destined for an eye patch.)

Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Posted: April 3rd, 2010, 11:08 am
by jnduncan
I too am wondering about the whole "people cease to exist" thing if Locke Monster gets off the island. I'm guessing Locke wants the alternate reality thread to become the new reality as it benefits him in some way. However, if alternate reality means the group never arrived on the island, how does that mean things played out with Smoke Monster? If the big picture all revolves around Jacob finding a replacement to keep Evil in its place and the replacements never arrive, what happens with Jacob? No indication he was dying or anything. Was Ben destined to kill him regardless? This talk of only five candidates being around makes me wonder if Desmond is the sixth. Why did he need to be brought back? Though I suppose we'll find that out next week. Makes me sad there are only six episodes left of perhaps the most interesting tv show of all time.

Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Posted: April 3rd, 2010, 11:21 am
by laura.miller.edwards
Nathan Bransford wrote:How do people feel about last night's episode? I have to say that the flash sideways still isn't working for me. Just not sure what we're supposed to be getting out of it. Even if they all add up in the end it's still a lot of "Yeah, we know"s about what their lives were like pre-island and how they might have ended up.

Even Sun's sudden inability to speak English was kind of a letdown. I thought maybe it was more than a bonk on the head, but then she can write it at the end?
Here's the thing-- the flash sideways are not adding up, they are not a playing out of what might have been if the plane had landed. Sawyer as a cop? With the other dude as his partner? Um, no. Wasn't happening. They are NOT what life was like or would have been had they simply landed. Also, Sun and Jin were not married in the flash sideways. They weren't being coy about the hotel room thing, there's simply no reason to do it. Also, she doesn't know English in the flash sideways (which may be why she loses it on the island? To mirror this? Or the other reality is somehow affecting their current one?) because they were never married, so she never had to learn it in order to escape him.

I don't think it can be anything other than an alternate reality. how this all ties in? No clue. But this is more than just a "if the plane would have landed, this is what would have happened." It's a skewed reality, maybe the alternate reality that would have been if Jacob had never come to them?

Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Posted: April 3rd, 2010, 5:04 pm
by Josin
It's a concurrent reality with the point of divergence in 1977.

Desmond is important because after he set off the flash in the hatch, he gained the ability to mentally hop around his own time line. He became "the variable" - which is why Daniel approached him in the hatch when the island was hopping around the timeline and they were bouncing from past to present to future in season 5 (yes, the island was moving, they were static. The Losties are constants, not variables.)

Widmore is looking to find the EM pockets, like the one that was behind the cement wall in the Swan hatch. Those EM pockets are most likely verticies, like area with the donkey wheel. Desmond's gifts work with that. He can move through time, the wheel can move through space. Do both and you can affect everything that EVER happened. Widmore's great regret is "losing" the island, so he'll want to change that. He needs Desmond to do it.

Those EM pockets act like natural versions of the pylons set up to contain Smokey. Screw them up, and you've got trouble.

Jacob gave the cork analogy to explain the island, but think of it more like Pandora's box. If you know ahead of time what's going to happen, there are 2 possibilities. You can either change it, or it's set in stone and all you can do is watch it happen. If you're stuck with the latter, but still know what's going to happen, then you exist without hope.

No matter how often Desmond tried to stop Charlie from dying, his fate always course corrected - but they were contained to the island at the time. Once Desmond blew one of those EM pockets, he was able to hop around and affect things off the island. Things like searching out Faraday when there was no reason for him to go looking for a man he'd never met.

You have a stand-off situation between Destiny (Jacob - the man with a plan, according to Richard, or the one who protects what's supposed to happen), and Fate (Smokey - the one who tries to keep it from happening). This is mirrored by Eloise - the one who sent her own son to be killed by her younger self to preserve the timeline, and Widmore - the one who is desperately trying to alter his own history.

When you create an alteration in the time line - like setting off Jughead in the Swan hatch - you create a massive energy build-up at one of those EM-points. It ruptures the dimensional wall and shunts anyone at the point of impact into a concurrent reality spun off when that event changed -- this is how you get sideways world -- everything that happens after the impact, is degrees different and compounded over time into a parallel universe all its own.

Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Posted: April 7th, 2010, 12:06 am
by Steppe
Just finished with this weeks twists and turns and liked it.
Funny how Penny was jogging up and down the stairs this time instead of Jack.

I wasn't surprised once it went onto a Desmond worldlines mode that all the
characters were busting his chops to "Get with the program."

I don't buy into the "Smokie" is the bad guy trap and still think Faraday
shall be some type of "Lazurus" character because he played a pivotal
role in getting Desmond to "Wake Up" after Charlie failed.

As the originator of the physics "He MUST come back to life."
Who what when where why and how; other than this set of
templates oscillating in and out from the outer surfaces to the inner surfaces,
is still a mystery but some how he seems the likely *resolution* character
that might be able to tie the story arc up into a nice neat set of sturdy packages.

Josin... I still dig your Tesseract idea.
I think the movement that must occur shall involve 8 world lines
transferring a cube that rest inside a cube to a new location in the continuum.

A central line representing the 8 theoretical worldline plus 1 virtual line as an
umbilical cord. Penny would seem to qualify because "She's never been to the Island"

They had various 4 & 8 world line groupings through many character combinations.

Then for a while there were 7 candidates that just seemed to *not do the trick*
of transporting the smaller three+one cube out of the larger three+one cube.

The dual circle seems to have been introduced tonight as a momentum charging mechanism.
for the fifteen 15 combination straight up of 8 plus 7

A clever cube verse torus video

I only got a quick glance so far at Faraday's equation page but this seems
close as the transformation of a plane 2d object into a sphere 2d object.

With key points as:

a circle is the only 1D object enclosing a 2D space .... &
A sphere is the only 2D objecting enclosing a 3D space

Because as you stated earlier on there is (paraphrasing you)
some type of compression and extraction through dimensions required
"real-4d" 4321 0 as infinite 0 1234 "real" again with transformation
**information retained** even if the move was to a parallel literal world line left vacated.

It was a good episode.
Very curious as to everyone's thoughts and speculations.

Sam? still out there. Theories?

Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Posted: April 7th, 2010, 12:54 am
by Josin
Meh. This is the only episode this season I've been tempted to skip from boredom. Rehashing already known information, but at least we got a glimpse of Sayid at the end (and he still wouldn't kill a woman in cold blood, so maybe he's not as claimed as he's supposed to be.)

Desmond's turning out to be a sort of gyroscope keeping everything on point.

I want my hour back. :-(

Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Posted: April 7th, 2010, 1:20 am
by Nathan Bransford
Ha - see, Josin, I saw it as an hour of proving your theory right. Certainly seems as if the explosion in 1977 set up two different courses and Desmond is the one traveling mentally between them (with others having a few flashes of alternate destinies). Still wondering how they're going to square this with the mythology of the island.

Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Posted: April 7th, 2010, 9:20 am
by owlandsparrow
I agree with Nathan, Josin - it did seem to be an hour of proving your theory right. Much of it wasn't previously "known" information. Rather, it was previously guessed/suspected/theorized/hinted at information. My Lost-watching group is full of people who pick the show apart and love to theorize, and all of us were thoroughly into last night's very un-boring (in all of our opinions) episode.

I thought it was a good answer to "Flashes Before Your Eyes" and "The Constant" - that it took the little bit that was previously known information (Desmond's head-hopping) and expanded on it, telling us how it works and what it means in the context of the overall story (both of which were suspected, but not known, before). Finally, we can see what makes him special to the endgame, and why the Island may not be done with him yet. The episode also gave us more definitive insight into Widmore's motives.

I'm intrigued by Eloise in the Sideways world, and also by Charlie and Faraday. Eloise's odd behavior speaks for itself, I think. As for Charlie and Faraday, I'm wondering if they are so much more perceptive to their Island lives due to the fact that they've both already died in Island world? Like, if you die in one timeline, your mind goes to join your mind in the separate timeline, and you are more aware of it? (Not saying currently alive people don't get snippets of Island deja vu - just that the dead ones are way more aware of it.)

Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Posted: April 7th, 2010, 9:35 am
by abc
I'm just glad Faraday is back. And Desmond is one of my favorite characters, so enjoyed spending an hour with him. Some of the love and destiny speeches felt a little forced and corny, but I ultimately went with them for the sake of theme and all that.

I never felt this alternate (or sideways) reality was the epilogue, but I am glad that this episode finally proved that theory wrong.

As much as I can get away with it, I'm going to add "brother" to end of every one of my sentences.

Till next week, brother(s).

Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Posted: April 8th, 2010, 4:31 pm
by Steppe
Found a quality link for "The Equation" ... s-p1-sr-i1

The background music they were using for this scene
was from the sci-fi indie cult classic "Pi" which slowly
in its plot line eliminates the time discussion in favor of
geometric placement of possibilities.

I'm curious to see how they explain the why.
They must have competing advisers on the shows science team
that shall try to come up with a plausible outcome that satisfies the top
two or three competing theories of what time and space really are.

Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Posted: April 9th, 2010, 7:16 pm
by CindyLou
What if the "Kwon" on the wall is Jin and Sun's child?

Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Posted: April 9th, 2010, 9:52 pm
by JulieanneReeves
The title has nothing to do with their current situation. Its called "LOST" because it's a mind game. You're the one lost.

My theory is - keeping in mind I've never watched an entire episode - that it's all in someone's head. Kind of like the person with MPD/DID (Multiple Personality Disorder/ Dissociative Identity Disorder) Think Identity 2003 (Movie) or When Rabbit Howls (Trudii Chase 1987 Jove).

Someone is going to wake up from some sort of dream/delusional episode realizing none of it was real. They may even go so far as to walk through the initial steps, of the first episode, leading up to the crash, and leave you all forever wondering if any of it was real, and...Lost.

I may be totally wrong, but if I'm right... Nathan... I want you to read my manuscript and be brutal about it. Lol

Not asking for much, am I?

Re: Lost - Possible Spoilers!

Posted: April 13th, 2010, 10:12 pm
by Josin
ROFL! Who else saw Ilana blowing up a mile away? Someone should have told Miss Mercenary that you can't play hot potato with weeping dynamite.

The show's getting downright predictable in its last weeks. I mean, I know they had to find someway to get Desmond to the EM pocket that's under the well, but couldn't they find something a little less obvious than having Locke toss him in?

And Sideways Desmond running down Locke? (I guess he's out to give them all near death experiences to make them "remember" their other lives.)

My one area of question is with Michael's "ghost". That's the only time I remember Hurley hearing the whispers before one of the apparitions showed up - they're usually an auditory cue for the "Others", and Ben was wary enough of them to warn Rousseau to run the other way if she heard them when he took Alex. I'm not certain that Michael was Michael.

Next week we find out the Candidate ( I think). My money's still on Sun, but Ben could be a spoiler...