OK, how about least favourite characters' names?

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Leila
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Re: OK, how about least favourite characters' names?

Post by Leila » March 25th, 2011, 1:32 pm

Guardian wrote:1. Character names with same first and last name initials (Kate Kennedy, Jack Johnson, etc, etc...)
2. Same as above, but the same initials are also used as nicknames, such as KayKay, JayJay, etc, etc...
3. Character names with one or more apostrophes.
4. When the author is giving a foreign first and surname to a character from a quite different nationality, yet trying to tell me this name should exist in that nation or country as a traditional name (Lack of research).
5. Character names, which is trying to tell us the character's style and / or origin... (Usually appearing in fantasies; Blackhand, Stonefist, Stormwind, etc, etc...)
6. Character names with lots of TH, RG, W, X, Y, Z.
7. Stupid short names, usually for twins or fictive pet companion, Kag, Tag, Vag, etc, etc...
8. All above together = truly stupid fictive names with terrible sounding.
Incredible. Such a big response! Have you formed this list over a long period of time or did all of this just occur to you in response to this topic?

I'm still trying to come up with my own least favourite characters' names in any sense!

Leila
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Re: OK, how about least favourite characters' names?

Post by Leila » March 25th, 2011, 1:34 pm

Falls Apart wrote:Bella Swan from Twilight. Hate to sound like the anti-fans, but it seems like they're kind of hitting you over the head with the whole "beautiful swan" metaphor.
I'm just wondering if the name, in isolation, would bother you? Or is it just in the context of the Twilight books that it annoys you?

siebendach
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Re: OK, how about least favourite characters' names?

Post by siebendach » March 25th, 2011, 8:32 pm

Draco Malfoy's just too over the top . . . might as well name the guy Cockroach McEvil.

It's just hitting the reader over the head with a sign that says: "You're not allowed to like this person!"

It's already bit overbearing to have that character --- an obvious rival to the hero --- constantly undermining himself by continually irritating everyone around him. But to do that, and give him a name like that too . . . I think it's just too much. YMMV.

I suppose a subjective problem like that stands out more to me, in a work of fiction with such exceptional strengths (it's one of my favorite settings ever, for example).

In light of this, Draco Malfoy isn't such a big deal, especially considering he's not supposed to be the main villain (or even much of a challenge). I'm not saying the character shouldn't be there --- he does provide a lot of helpful exposition about the world, for example. But he DOES have one of my least favorite names in all fiction.

Leila
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Re: OK, how about least favourite characters' names?

Post by Leila » March 26th, 2011, 12:59 pm

siebendach wrote:Draco Malfoy's just too over the top . . . might as well name the guy Cockroach McEvil.

It's just hitting the reader over the head with a sign that says: "You're not allowed to like this person!"

It's already bit overbearing to have that character --- an obvious rival to the hero --- constantly undermining himself by continually irritating everyone around him. But to do that, and give him a name like that too . . . I think it's just too much. YMMV.

I suppose a subjective problem like that stands out more to me, in a work of fiction with such exceptional strengths (it's one of my favorite settings ever, for example).

In light of this, Draco Malfoy isn't such a big deal, especially considering he's not supposed to be the main villain (or even much of a challenge). I'm not saying the character shouldn't be there --- he does provide a lot of helpful exposition about the world, for example. But he DOES have one of my least favorite names in all fiction.
Thanks for responding. I'm so interested in hearing different people's perspectives on these things. If you don't mind me asking, what would you name him instead? I thought it was a great name. I also thought Draco's nature was entirely consistent with his history, his upbringing, his environment, his 'place of privilege' in his world and therefore extremely well characterized. (But I'm a newbie to writing and you're clearly not). And I did feel a bit sorry for him in some regards. He is a product of his environment, yet underneath it all he's just a boy wanting to be liked but not knowing how to achieve it in any genuine way. I assumed he didn't come from a warm, loving, expressive environment at home, so he covers his needs with sarcasm, privilege and never delving beneath the surface layers of himself. He wouldn't even be aware of his need to be liked. Yet your perception appears to be entirely different. Would you mind sharing how you would have presented such a character?

siebendach
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Re: OK, how about least favourite characters' names?

Post by siebendach » March 26th, 2011, 8:33 pm

Leila wrote:Would you mind sharing how you would have presented such a character?
Gee, that's a tough question. Not an easy one for me to answer, and still be fair to J.K. Rowling. After all, she had to effectively answer the questions of how she was going to handle everything, while undertaking the effort of writing it. With the benefit of hindsight, and without expending any effort, I'm free to say I would have only tinkered with the bits of her story I don't like, while leaving everything I like just the way it is. . . and that's not really fair.

That being said, I suppose I'd have Draco a little better at manipulating people, or getting them to like him. He comes from an aristocratic family --- those people are professional manipulators, they should be experts at it. Draco's received coaching from his father that Harry Potter is an important person, and to try and get on his good side. . . so I'd have him hide his disdain for Harry's friends at first. Maybe only have the ugly parts of him come out under stress, when he slips up, so Harry has to be a little observant to see that Draco's not such a nice guy. Or maybe have someone overhear Draco, disparaging Ron and Hermione to other people, so Harry gradually comes to the conclusion that Draco's not all that he seems. Let it come out a little at a time instead of having it all be instantly obvious.

And of course, I'd change his name. I suppose he could keep "Draco" or "Malfoy", but not both. I just think the name's a little over the top.

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Re: OK, how about least favourite characters' names?

Post by siebendach » March 27th, 2011, 11:41 am

Leila wrote: Thanks for responding. I'm so interested in hearing different people's perspectives on these things.
I can see that . . . again, I'm saying all this in the context of how great that series really is. It's a great fantasy series, with some expert worldbuilding that goes down smooth, despite its complexity.

But it's also a great YA series, and I'm quite the "newbie" when it comes to YA. Writing for young adults is a different, specialized challenge, and the YA aspect is going to make things go a certain way. I've had some people say that Draco behaves exactly the way a child's rival should behave in YA --- and for all I know, they're right. Not only do I not write YA, I haven't read much of it either.

It's important to remember that you can't please everyone. If JK Rowling had attempted to do that, she almost certainly would have produced something very forgettable. If she made a certain choice in writing her story that displeased me --- but in the process, pleased more readers than she displeased --- then she made the right choice. I'm just one person, and I know some things definitely should not bethe way I'd like them to be.

Maybe Rowling couldn't have met my expectations about Draco without sacrificing something else, to the detriment of the overall work. At any rate, I'm confident that she considered her decisions very carefully.

The stuff you said about Draco's environment is very interesting, I never saw it that way. I figured Draco's family definitely loved him, even though we might call them "bad people" and would likely call them "dysfunctional". I thought they took their family history seriously enough that they all loved their "family" as a concept, overshadowing any love they might have felt for other individual family members. And I assumed that Draco, who seemed to be acting like a medieval aristocrat who could subject most people to gruesome executions on a whim, might have been better served if his family had molded him more like an aristocrat from a later age, with a silk handkerchief over his razor blade.

In general, my strongest impression of Draco's strongest desire was to win the pride of an emotionally distant family. I never considered the possibility of his deepest desire being to gain approval of peers --- you say Draco is "just a boy wanting to be liked but not knowing how to achieve it". That's not only true, I would also think it also makes Draco more relevant to the YA reader. In light of that, maybe my assumptions miss the point. . . this is very subjective.
Last edited by siebendach on March 27th, 2011, 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Falls Apart
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Re: OK, how about least favourite characters' names?

Post by Falls Apart » March 27th, 2011, 1:34 pm

I'm just wondering if the name [Bella Swan], in isolation, would bother you? Or is it just in the context of the Twilight books that it annoys you?
In the context it bugs me. If the character wasn't supposed to resemble an ugly duckling>beautiful swan, I wouldn't really care. Also, it annoys me that she's presented as needing a man to "transform" her into what she's supposedly supposed to be. Unless I'm misremembering, all the vampires in the book whose origins were specified were transformed by male vampires. Not to mention the undertones of abusiveness in Bella's relationship with Edward, the undertones of sexual assault in some of her interactions with Jacob, and the undertones of pedophilia in Jacob's relationship with a girl who happens to be less than a year old. Woah, sorry, ranting. Back to topic . . . yeah. Names with blatant symbolism bug me. I don't mind names where the name has a bit of a hidden meaning, i.e. the literal meaning reflects some aspect of the character, a character in a well-known book is similar to him/her, it just "sounds like" the character, etc., but when any given person could take a look at the name and, without giving much thought to it, point out what it means . . . yeah. That's a problem.

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Re: OK, how about least favourite characters' names?

Post by Leila » March 28th, 2011, 3:53 pm

siebendach wrote:
Leila wrote: Thanks for responding. I'm so interested in hearing different people's perspectives on these things.
I can see that . . . again, I'm saying all this in the context of how great that series really is. It's a great fantasy series, with some expert worldbuilding that goes down smooth, despite its complexity.

But it's also a great YA series, and I'm quite the "newbie" when it comes to YA. Writing for young adults is a different, specialized challenge, and the YA aspect is going to make things go a certain way. I've had some people say that Draco behaves exactly the way a child's rival should behave in YA --- and for all I know, they're right. Not only do I not write YA, I haven't read much of it either.

It's important to remember that you can't please everyone. If JK Rowling had attempted to do that, she almost certainly would have produced something very forgettable. If she made a certain choice in writing her story that displeased me --- but in the process, pleased more readers than she displeased --- then she made the right choice. I'm just one person, and I know some things definitely should not bethe way I'd like them to be.

Maybe Rowling couldn't have met my expectations about Draco without sacrificing something else, to the detriment of the overall work. At any rate, I'm confident that she considered her decisions very carefully.

The stuff you said about Draco's environment is very interesting, I never saw it that way. I figured Draco's family definitely loved him, even though we might call them "bad people" and would likely call them "dysfunctional". I thought they took their family history seriously enough that they all loved their "family" as a concept, overshadowing any love they might have felt for other individual family members. And I assumed that Draco, who seemed to be acting like a medieval aristocrat who could subject most people to gruesome executions on a whim, might have been better served if his family had molded him more like an aristocrat from a later age, with a silk handkerchief over his razor blade.

In general, my strongest impression of Draco's strongest desire was to win the pride of an emotionally distant family. I never considered the possibility of his deepest desire being to gain approval of peers --- you say Draco is "just a boy wanting to be liked but not knowing how to achieve it". That's not only true, I would also think it also makes Draco more relevant to the YA reader. In light of that, maybe my assumptions miss the point. . . this is very subjective.

Well, like I said, they were only the assumptions I made and the feelings that were drawn from me as I read along. I could be entirely off the mark. What is interesting though, is regardless of favorite or least favorite character(s) and names, it ultimately comes down to the reader's own personal makeup (on every level) and perceptions to color and guide their assessments, feelings, level of engagement etc as we read along. Fascinating. For my money, it would be very, very hard to find something which could ever be more impressive than Harry Potter!

Leila
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Re: OK, how about least favourite characters' names?

Post by Leila » March 28th, 2011, 4:01 pm

Falls Apart wrote:
I'm just wondering if the name [Bella Swan], in isolation, would bother you? Or is it just in the context of the Twilight books that it annoys you?
In the context it bugs me. If the character wasn't supposed to resemble an ugly duckling>beautiful swan, I wouldn't really care. Also, it annoys me that she's presented as needing a man to "transform" her into what she's supposedly supposed to be. Unless I'm misremembering, all the vampires in the book whose origins were specified were transformed by male vampires. Not to mention the undertones of abusiveness in Bella's relationship with Edward, the undertones of sexual assault in some of her interactions with Jacob, and the undertones of pedophilia in Jacob's relationship with a girl who happens to be less than a year old. Woah, sorry, ranting. Back to topic . . . yeah. Names with blatant symbolism bug me. I don't mind names where the name has a bit of a hidden meaning, i.e. the literal meaning reflects some aspect of the character, a character in a well-known book is similar to him/her, it just "sounds like" the character, etc., but when any given person could take a look at the name and, without giving much thought to it, point out what it means . . . yeah. That's a problem.
Thanks very much for responding. It's usually great that characters draw out such strong reactions in us as readers, but sometimes it can be a little challenging when the character is too grating (as Bella appears to be to you) and I guess makes us lose interest overall? Can I ask how many of the Twilight books you read? Did you get too put off to finish the series or did you persevere?

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Re: OK, how about least favourite characters' names?

Post by Guardian » March 30th, 2011, 5:03 pm

Leila wrote:Incredible. Such a big response! Have you formed this list over a long period of time or did all of this just occur to you in response to this topic?
It has formed over a long period of time. :)

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