MOCKINGJAY - spoiler edition

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sally_apokedak
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Re: MOCKINGJAY - spoiler edition

Post by sally_apokedak » September 5th, 2010, 11:13 pm

Oops, one more thing. With the torture of the prep team, Coin's evil ways, and the kids at the end, used as a shield by the bad guys and killed by the good guys...Collins is making a statement about the present war and about all wars, isn't she? The US of A is not the good guy and the puppet governments we set up are not the good guys. And we torture the others just as much as they torture us. Do you think this is her point?

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Re: MOCKINGJAY - spoiler edition

Post by abc » September 6th, 2010, 12:01 pm

Who needs a book club when we have Nathan's book forum?

Sally, I really enjoyed your analysis. Lots to think about. I'm on the pro side--though I hear all the frustrated sentiments. I had hoped for that touching, dramatic Peeta and Katniss reunion scene, but I do believe that Collins is taking it all the way with her War is Hell theme. Her existential angst. Her HUMANITY IS DARK, BUT ALSO GOOD points. Like The Road--Peeta and Katniss are keeping the fire alive.

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Re: MOCKINGJAY - spoiler edition

Post by Heather B » September 7th, 2010, 4:15 am

I know what everyone is saying about Collins bringing forth her opinions on war but as a novel, depressing endings aren't something that people expect (or want).

I'm not saying that every ending has to be good but there at least has to be hope. There is hope for the districts and even a little for Peeta and Gale (thank God) but I didn't feel any hope left over for Katniss. She's the character we are so invested in so her ending is the one we remember. To me, she just seemed to end up going through the paces.

She didn't love Peeta, but she ended up with him, and I know a lot of you are saying that people are too focused on the love story but that is what Collins has set up. Since the first book Katniss has been faced with the choice between Peeta and Gale so when she makes the choice, it has to be a good one with good reason. I would have preferred she ended up an old maid than with Peeta. It wasn't believable and if I can't trust the author to give me a believable ending, I'm not going to read her books. I want to know, as a reader, that I'm in good hands.
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Re: MOCKINGJAY - spoiler edition

Post by Heather B » September 7th, 2010, 6:29 am

Journey to the Cuckoo's Nest

http://heathermbryant.blogspot.com.au/

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Re: MOCKINGJAY - spoiler edition

Post by sally_apokedak » September 7th, 2010, 8:36 am

Heather, I agree with you about the love deal. I think Collins broke contract with the reader. The third book was nothing like the first two. It felt like a bait and switch.

If you look at the Amazon reviews you find that about three quarters of the reviews gave the book four or five stars. So there are a lot of readers who didn't feel betrayed. But I think that if Katniss had done a little more in the book, instead of walking around in a daze and having to get answers from Prim, those people who liked the book as is, would have liked it even better, and the rest of us might have liked it too.

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Re: MOCKINGJAY - spoiler edition

Post by Sommer Leigh » September 7th, 2010, 8:49 am

I just read the article posted above and all of its comments, and oh my god. I know this is going to sound crazy because I'm one of the people who didn't really care for the ending of Mockingjay, but can we talk about for a moment the absolute terror I just experienced because while I know some people will like what you write and some people won't, how do writers get through the night knowing people are out there sizing you up and going, "The writing was crap. Story was good, but the writing was lazy." Even about a series as well written and beloved as The Hunger Games?

How do authors pick up the pen and start again and not go, "Oh my God, NYReader172 is so right on. My writing IS crap and lazy!"

Honestly, how do authors sleep at night? Or not cancel their internet service and move to the middle of nowhere on a deserted island where blog posts and comments and forums can't reach them?

I always thought I was ok with criticism, but I don't know.
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Re: MOCKINGJAY - spoiler edition

Post by Rhonda » September 7th, 2010, 1:13 pm

I finally finished reading Mockinjay with my 11 year old son. We are both huge fans of Suzanne Collins. I have to say I was a bit depressed by the way everything wrapped up. I don't think it was bad. I would have liked it to take more advantage of the fact that it was "fiction" and therefore didn't have to be so real (if that makes sense). I also could do without the preachiness. From my son's point of view, he never likes when books end with jumps to the future, so the epilogue depressed him (he didn't like that in the Prydain Chronicles or the City of Ember books either). It's been a while since we read the Gregor books by Collins, but I think the ending there left us with a similar feeling of "Well, that's that," as Mockingjay did. Still a great series overall and I remain a huge fan of Collins. There were several times that my son and I cracked up during the story. I can't think of an example right now, but the humorous moments are still there. It's not all violence and gloom. ; )

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Re: MOCKINGJAY - spoiler edition

Post by abc » September 7th, 2010, 2:34 pm

She didn't love Peeta, but she ended up with him
Heather, I believe (WITH ALL MY HEART) that Katniss loved Peeta. I think this is evident in all three books. I think she loves Gale, too, but I believe her love for Peeta is bigger and richer based on what they have gone through and who Peeta is to her. I don't think the ending (with Peeta) is settling. He asks her if she loves him and she says she does. And the most important moment between them in the book is when she tells them that what they do is take care of each other--which is what love is supposed to be. I think throughout the series Collins works hard to set up Peeta as Katniss' true mate. And they fight for each other and they earn each other.

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Re: MOCKINGJAY - spoiler edition

Post by Mira » September 7th, 2010, 2:57 pm

Sommer Leigh wrote:I just read the article posted above and all of its comments, and oh my god. I know this is going to sound crazy because I'm one of the people who didn't really care for the ending of Mockingjay, but can we talk about for a moment the absolute terror I just experienced because while I know some people will like what you write and some people won't, how do writers get through the night knowing people are out there sizing you up and going, "The writing was crap. Story was good, but the writing was lazy." Even about a series as well written and beloved as The Hunger Games?

How do authors pick up the pen and start again and not go, "Oh my God, NYReader172 is so right on. My writing IS crap and lazy!"

Honestly, how do authors sleep at night? Or not cancel their internet service and move to the middle of nowhere on a deserted island where blog posts and comments and forums can't reach them?

I always thought I was ok with criticism, but I don't know.
Sommer, I know what you mean! I remember when J.K. Rowling was under such pressure with her last in her series, and I thought to myself that I would just crack under that.

I guess if it happens, you just handle it, but I've definitely had the same thoughts. It's rather daunting how much pressure public attention can put on people.

I've often thought that if I ever publish, I'll just refuse to read reviews. I can't see reading reviews going anywhere good for me!

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Re: MOCKINGJAY - spoiler edition

Post by sally_apokedak » September 7th, 2010, 5:21 pm

The reviews that really bother me are the ones that say, "Collins ought to be ashamed of herself," as if she was holding her readers in contempt as she wrote the last book. Or maybe they think she was partying all the time and didn't care about writing a good book.

I didn't like the book, but I have no doubt that she had reasons for making the choices she made.

The pressure on successful writers must be huge. I think if I ever get published I might be one of those authors who has to refuse to read any reviews, good or bad. I think both kinds of reviews are dangerous and contribute to that condition where perfectly nice writers turn, overnight, into total jerks.

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Re: MOCKINGJAY - spoiler edition

Post by sally_apokedak » September 7th, 2010, 5:27 pm

Here's an interesting blog post on the trilogy's tie-ins with Rome.
http://historywithatwist.blogspot.com/2 ... ilogy.html

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Re: MOCKINGJAY - spoiler edition

Post by ladymarella » September 8th, 2010, 4:49 am

well I have just finished this after a five hour reading out loud session with my friends. we have read all the books to each other, which really prolongs the agony.
I actually really loved the ending. We all felt beforehand that there was a chance it could turn into a really bad teenage sop ending and i was so glad it didn't. i also thought the break with gale was really well done. i'd been predicting something like that since chp 1 of the first book
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Re: MOCKINGJAY - spoiler edition

Post by Robin » September 8th, 2010, 9:02 am

sally_apokedak wrote:Here's an interesting blog post on the trilogy's tie-ins with Rome.
http://historywithatwist.blogspot.com/2 ... ilogy.html

Thank you so much for posting this. It gives more depth to the entire series. I can appreciate the ending more fully.

Thanks again! (virtual low carb cookies for you)
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Re: MOCKINGJAY - spoiler edition

Post by maggie » September 9th, 2010, 2:03 am

So, I finished it pretty much immediately too, but I'm new here so am just now posting. :)

I am in between as to whether I liked it or disliked it. I thought that, as in the last two, Collins is an amazing writer. I can't remember many books recently that have drawn me into the...obsession is the only word I can think of...that this series did. It was like I could physically not put the book down, and I think Mockingjay was amazing in that regard. Her storytelling is top notch, and her writing, while not really complex, is so perfect for the story.

But, on the flip side, I was a bit disappointed with the story. I knew it would be dark, and I was not expecting or wishing for a fairy tale ending, but my gosh. At least in the earlier books there was the occasional spark of hope, happiness, beauty...in HG and CF, at least some scenes between Katniss and Peeta, or Gale, or her family, made you feel like she had something to live for. Even Rue's death scene, as awful as it was, was also so tragically beautiful. I felt pretty much none of that in Mockingjay. The couple bright spots in the whole book (Katniss' relationship with Prim, Finnick and Annie) were nothing but more sadness in the end. And can I just say, Finnick! Why?! I almost missed that he had died! I can't believe that she killed him and gave him no more fanfare than a bunch of characters whose names we barely knew. I am still sad about Finnick.

And the Peeta vs Gale thing. I wasn't sure how that was going to turn out to be a happy ending no matter who she chose, and I wish there had been more closure. It felt kind of like Katniss, who had fought so hard for so long, was just settling for something she didn't really want, just because it was the easiest choice. Which, I suppose, is very "real" for Collins to do, but hey! This is a story! Throw us a bone here! :)

Overall, I certainly didn't hate it, but I had hoped for something a bit different. Nevertheless, in my opinion, it's still the best YA series since HP.

(HeatherB- I was reading this thinking I was going to link to the Forever Young Adult review, and then you did! Pretty negative review, but a good one.)

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