A few other manuscript issues

[Leila]

Hi all,

Help please!

I’m a bit confused about a couple of details when it comes to formatting manuscripts. Excluding the tips Nathan has already provided us with in a previous blog, I wonder if anyone would be kind enough to guide me in the following areas where I've received contradictory advice:

1. Do you put your name and the date on the footer (or header) of the manuscript? Some feedback I've received is not to do that becauase it is the mark of an amateur, other feedback says of course you should. Thoughts please?

2. Dialogue – are you supposed to indent it just as you do for each paragraph?

3.Single spacing - is that the way to go now? I think I read in one of Nathan’s blogs that' this might be the case?

4. Do you put ‘The end’ at the end? Some feedback = don’t be silly, some = obviously.

I apologize for the extremely basic nature of my questions. I already feel like a bit of a dope just asking, but sometimes I find the conflicting information a little overwhelming and I would hate to make obvious mistakes.

Thanks in advance for any and all advice.

Leila

[Bohemienne]

Review the submission guidelines for the agent you're sending it to, but ultimately, unless they put something very specific about what they want to see, they are not going to reject your manuscript because you did or didn't put your name in the header/footer. Hopefully they will be focusing on the writing instead. :D

If dialogue opens a new paragraph, indent it, just like the start of any new paragraph. Everything else is highly subjective, and again, unless an agent specifies, I would not sweat it!

[Leila]

Good advice! In fact this is usually my comment to others so what an apt reminder.

I guess the issues I'm raising are not generally the sort of thing I've seen specified anywhere but come up enough in discussion with others to bother me. Hence seeking others opinions in this wonderfully diverse forum.

Thanks again!

[Guardian]

1. Do you put your name and the date on the footer (or header) of the manuscript? Some feedback I've received is not to do that becauase it is the mark of an amateur, other feedback says of course you should. Thoughts please?

Name yes, date... it depends. Whoever says you're an amateur because you're adding rightful and necessary elements to a manuscript... well, usually those ones used to say the "there are no original ideas, so share them bravely with me" stuff too. I hope you get my point. Just be careful what others are saying. Adding your name to your own property is never going to present you as an amateur. Adding the date also won't present you as one (But the date is usually not necessary. If you want to add it, add it to the cover page.). And always add the page numbers such as Page X (Actual page) / 376 (The length of the whole material).

2. Dialogue – are you supposed to indent it just as you do for each paragraph?

If the dialogue opens a new paragraph, definitely.

3.Single spacing - is that the way to go now? I think I read in one of Nathan’s blogs that' this might be the case?

Single spacing after commas and periods, and double spacing for overall paragraph format. But always check the agent guidelines.

4. Do you put ‘The end’ at the end? Some feedback = don’t be silly, some = obviously.

I believe it's a matter of taste. Personally I use "To Be Continue" and "The End" in my trilogy. In my other WIP there is no "The End".

[Bohemienne]

3.Single spacing - is that the way to go now? I think I read in one of Nathan’s blogs that' this might be the case?

Single spacing after commas and periods, and double spacing for overall paragraph format. But always check the agent guidelines.

Ahh, I think I misunderstood this. Yes, I do believe that a single space after a sentence end is now the preferred style. I thought the question meant line spacing, in which case, most stated preferences I've seen are for double, but always check the guidelines!

On the full I sent out, I made sure my name and ms title were on every single page. But that could have just been me and my paranoia. ;)

[Guardian]

On the full I sent out, I made sure my name and ms title were on every single page.

Same here.

But that could have just been me and my paranoia. ;)

There is no paranoia, just rightful self-defense. ;)

[polymath]

Standard Manuscript Format reached a nearly standard typewritten standard about 1966 when IBM came out with the Selectric proportional typeface typewriter. Things progressed toward chaos again after that.

One guiding principle of SMF is it's a manuscript format, not a publication format. Prepare the manuscript for typesetting ease. The best practice SMF formatted manuscripts are ones that don't call undue attention to anything: paper color, brightness, and size, typeface style and size and text crispness, ample margins, ample line and glyph spacing, paragraph and sentence formatting, header and footer and page numbering formatting, etc. All ought best be as plain and simple as circumstances allow. Let the story speak for itself. Everything else is potentially disruptive.

Vonda McIntrye's manuscript format guidelines are a best practice example of the many whys and wherefores of manuscript preparation.

http://www.vondanmcintyre.com/Mssprep.pdf

[Leila]

Thanks very much everyone for the extremely valuable advice. And thanks for the great link polymath. Much appreciated.

I'm all for keeping things simple and to the point. In my profession for instance, in the past I've been called to on resolve disputes between selection panel members convened to recruit senior management positions. Whilst I'm always prepared to be a bit lenient with things like typo's etc, I've found that panel members can be quite rigid in their expectations and want to reject potentially highly suitable candidates on that basis alone. Or the format of the information, or, or... To me, I'd rather concentrate on the person, their qualities, skills, knowledge, experience, ability to fit the team being recruiting to and the colleagues they'll associate with rather than a couple of small errors. I mean, the goal was to find the right person, not a piece of paper, to do the job.

But in the writing industry, you are only dealing with one agent and their views, guidelines, biases, expectations etc, so I guess it makes the stakes a little more 'exacting' in some respects. Hence my hesitation. I hope this makes sense.

[polymath]

You're welcome, Leila.

In every walk of life where there's a surfeit of potentials any seemingly trivial deviation is cause for rejection. Be it a manuscript, a tube of toothpaste, a job candidate, a complexion, or a belief system, and so on and so forth.

Something as trivial by comparison as serial comma practice seems irrelevant on its surface. However, how serial commas are used speaks volumes about a writer. For example, A, B, and C says the writer is trained in scholastic and prose formats; A, B and C says the writer is trained in journalism and business formatting styles. The former isn't as space saving conscious as the latter is. Same with numeral formatting: spell out counting numbers through one hundred and one for scholastic and prose formatting, through ten for journalism and business formatting. Other small mechanical style deviations, diction, and syntax, it's possible to analyze writers' educations and perhaps personalities by their style standards.

And why does it matter? Because social beings tend to favor like-minded persons. An agent consciously or nonconsciously interprets and judges traits as they read manuscripts. Will this author be close enough to my aesthetic that we can get along productively?

[Leila]

Polymath, I totally agree with your analysis, and it does indeed apply in all aspects of life.

I'm not critizing literary agents and if I came across in that light I certainly didn't mean to. Their job is hugely challenging and they have to apply whatever filters they deem appropriate to find authors who they feel they could best represent. Totally fair, totally reasonable.

I asked the questions about manuscript formatting etc, and used the selection panel example because sometimes a decision comes to down to perception. In a panel's case there is more than one person to 'debate' the decision. With an agent it's a lone call in the first instance, so it seems to me, (as a simple newbie) that whilst i shouldn't be paranoid about formatting and other associated query issues, it would be prudent to be as informed as possible and as thorough in my preparation as possible to hopefully put me in the best light as, effectively, a stranger to that agent.

Ultimately it's all about fate, luck, timing and other factors in the mix I realize, but it's my nature to try and manage as many of the variables as possible to balance out my chances of being considered. Hope that makes sense.

And I guess it seems like so many of you just seem to know this stuff and I feel a little in the dark, so I always appreciate your input and support. It is hugely valuable.

[polymath]

Leila, I didn't feel as though you were criticizing agents or anyone for that matter. I do feel your frustrations though. I remember how it was the first time I endeavoured to format a manuscript to some semblance of expectations. Fortunately, I had McIntrye's guidance ready to hand to see me through. Plus I've set a lot of type in my day, hot lead, cold lead, photo, and digital and screened a whole lot of submissions, published a few, and am a passionate reader and appreciate other related business and artistic concerns. I appreciate all sides of the intersection of writing's disparate goals and outcomes.

That's why I say the story is paramount. The packaging should be invisible, which means a standard package will not call undue attention to itself. If the packaging is invisible, the first line might be read. If the first line engages a reader, a hundred words might be read. If a hundred words doesn't disengage a reader, more might be read, and so on until the bitter end.

I've prospected for the It that published works share in common. I could name many structural qualities that are essential; however, in my final analysis after exhaustive investigations it comes down to one quality, feeling as a reader like I'm engaged by a drama as a vicarious participant. And that quality is a product of many, too numerous to enumerate aesthetic qualities that ultimately are any given writer's solitary lot to discover and choose. Although, Providence be praised, they are choices within our grasp once we decide to narrow the choices we have to hand.

[Leila]

Polymath - such great wisdom, as usual. I guess it just feels like I need to find the right door to open, which might unravel a whole heap of other information hidden behind other doors. My own searches sometimes land me at dead ends.

Your help, and everyone else who offers support and guidance in these forums is deeply appreciated. Thank you.

[polymath]

I've encountered many dead ends that turned out to be chimera wanting only an in, a thumb under an edge, an unseen chink in the armor, a crevice into which a pry bar could lever, a gatekeeper to cajole. One thing led to another before the first was fully realized, and another.

I started with the mechanics of plot. Plot was the first aesthetic hunch I had about narratives' quintessential qualities I enjoyed most and was advised my writing's shortcoming. Plot seemed on the surface so simple that anyone could grasp it and seemingly many have. My studies led me into confusion because so many readers and writers' definitions vary widely. Plot's tumbling threshold was for me the appreciation that it serves one purpose, to evoke emotion, the very defintion of art no matter the media.

Once I'd reconciled the many meanings of plot I moved on to character, then setting, idea or theme, event, and discourse, SPICED. What had been dead ends proved to be mere trail terminals at the edge of a frontier wanting only my explorations to discover their faint traces or extend their trails into untracked wilderness. Each led on to the other until they met up at an endpoint juncture. And back again through the loop countless times re-reconciling each to another and all in a glorious synthesis.

However, the most frustrating and biggest dead ends remain unreconciled: the necessities of daily living and obligations, self-doubt, and fickle marketplace forces. Yet such is life.