All that paper...

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Netti
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All that paper...

Post by Netti » December 13th, 2010, 3:39 pm

I was wondering how many people print off their full manuscripts for editing purposes. I'm dying to because that's when I do my best editing and I love going through page after page with my red pen (sick, I know). The thing is, even though I would keep it, I don't feel right about using so much ink and paper. Anyone else have this problem?
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Margo
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Re: All that paper...

Post by Margo » December 13th, 2010, 3:43 pm

Yes. Yes, I do need a hard copy for the edit. Yes, I do feel bad about the paper. Never thought about the ink before, but you have a point. Still, it also costs resources to stare at a screen for hours. No perfect choices. I try to lessen the problem by using recycled paper that wouldn't be considered submission quality.
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Guardian
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Re: All that paper...

Post by Guardian » December 13th, 2010, 3:46 pm

I do it very rarely, and I usually print chapters or just few pages. I'm working faster on the computer. But maybe I should give it a try one day with the full MS. As I heard it's sometimes much better to work on this way.

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Watcher55
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Re: All that paper...

Post by Watcher55 » December 13th, 2010, 4:05 pm

I don't think we're going to run out of paper any time soon. I use paper, I shred paper. Someone uses the paper for something else, like - I don't know, paper. Where's the guilt?

Oh, and I don't believe everything I hear about the tree shortage either.

Netti
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Re: All that paper...

Post by Netti » December 13th, 2010, 4:12 pm

Well, by messing with spacing I shortened the manuscript by about 100 pages. Still, so much paper. But this is the draft I considered final and it could really use another edit (especially with 62 queried agents and no hits).

Margo, where do you get the recycled paper? Is it something that can be picked up at Wal-mart? Luckily the semester is coming to a close so I have quite a bit of old assignments that I could reuse too.
"It's kind of shocking to hear Toby called a babe; sort of like calling God a studmuffin."
- Margaret Atwood, Year of the Flood

http://myscientificattempt.blogspot.com/

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polymath
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Re: All that paper...

Post by polymath » December 13th, 2010, 4:24 pm

I print out for a final, closest editing pass before printing for submission. I print on both sides for hard copy editing. I use Courier New typeface draft quality printing for lower ink consumption.

Reduce, reuse, recycle, renew.

The per capita U.S. lifetime consumption of trees is 25,000. I planted 81,000 pine seedlings over one winter a couple decades ago, renewing enough forest resources for me, a spouse, and 1.24 children, who have yet to materialize.

The plots I planted went through their first cull five years ago this winter. They'll be culled every twenty-five years or so until they reach maturity somewhere around 150 to 200 years old. First and second culls usually go to papermaking and subsequent culls' laps and offcuts. Second through fourth to lumber. Later culls to plywood manufacture until final harvest for plywood making before replanting.

Ideally, the paper is recycled or becomes permanent books, the lumber is reduced, reused, and recycled or becomes permanent structural components of buildings as well as the plywood, making much of it carbon sinks. It's not ideal though, there's still a lot of lost waste and fossil fuel consumption along the way. Though forestry anymore is a renewable resource process, monoculture tree plantation farming on a massive, longer than human longevity scale.
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Margo
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Re: All that paper...

Post by Margo » December 13th, 2010, 4:27 pm

Netti wrote:Margo, where do you get the recycled paper? Is it something that can be picked up at Wal-mart? Luckily the semester is coming to a close so I have quite a bit of old assignments that I could reuse too.
I don't know if Wal-Mart has it, but I would think there's a reasonable chance. I live down the street from an Office Depot and got it there, so I didn't have to go to great lengths to find it. I tend to go for the grade that has had less re-processing, since I'm not showing it to anyone. Those tend to be a beige or gray color rather than white. I figure less processing would mean less resources used in the recycling process. Hope I'm right about that. :)
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Netti
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Re: All that paper...

Post by Netti » December 13th, 2010, 4:36 pm

While I do want to save trees and all that, for me it's also partly because in my family we reused anything we could. Any paper with at least one clear side was used for scrap paper (really came in handy), we composted, threw apple cores and the like out the back door for whatever animal wanted it, gave left over food that no one wanted to the pets, etc. So I feel really bad when using a lot of paper or just throwing it out. Luckily though my school does recycle. Stupid thing, the last school I was at (Black Hills State) publicized itself as a green school but only had recycle bins out for a week around Earth Day.

Now to dig out the manual for my printer to see if it'll do double sided printing. Hadn't thought of that so thanks, Polymath.
"It's kind of shocking to hear Toby called a babe; sort of like calling God a studmuffin."
- Margaret Atwood, Year of the Flood

http://myscientificattempt.blogspot.com/

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polymath
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Re: All that paper...

Post by polymath » December 13th, 2010, 4:37 pm

Margo wrote:I figure less processing would mean less resources used in the recycling process. Hope I'm right about that. :)
Close enough. Less recycled paper processing means less bleaching to whiten dyed or unbleached post consumer paper products, newsprint, cardboard, etc., and remove ink. The bleaching process is a significant energy consumer and waste byproduct producer; however, raw fresh pulp goes through bleaching too. So overall there is a net gain from recycling paper.
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Re: All that paper...

Post by Margo » December 13th, 2010, 5:00 pm

polymath wrote:Close enough. Less recycled paper processing means less bleaching to whiten dyed or unbleached post consumer paper products, newsprint, cardboard, etc., and remove ink. The bleaching process is a significant energy consumer and waste byproduct producer; however, raw fresh pulp goes through bleaching too. So overall there is a net gain from recycling paper.
Excellent. That is exactly what I had assumed. Thanks for confirming.
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Louise Curtis
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Re: All that paper...

Post by Louise Curtis » December 13th, 2010, 5:03 pm

I went to a writing conference lately where an editor from Text Publishing Australia (a small but well-known publisher, with a staff of twenty) said that once a book is accepted, it is edited - entirely on paper. He refuses to work on screen.

I do think I see more on paper, but it means I need to make all the changes, then spend hours putting them into the text. So I don't do it any more - I just do more drafts.
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Re: All that paper...

Post by Claudie » December 13th, 2010, 5:44 pm

I edit on the screen, but not quite the way it's usually done. See, I also had quite a few qualms about printing so many pages too, but I had trouble with the screen. You can't draw arrows on it, scribble tiny notes and questions marks, and you don't get to enjoy scratching off that whole, useless sentence getting in the way of your pacing. It's not as fun, and after a hour, it becomes hard.

So I saved my money, and bought a 9 inch, touchscreen computer, along with a program that allows me to write on PDFs. The screen can be flipped and closed over the keyboard, which transforms it into a tablet. The end result is that I can do everything I could with paper, but now it's on screen, so I don't waste any paper or ink. I also have 5.5 hours of battery, and it fits in my purse even better than 8x11 sheets.

I love it. I really do. Fixed all my problems! :)
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Re: All that paper...

Post by cheekychook » December 13th, 2010, 6:00 pm

I try not to print too much, but sometimes you have to do it. There is a difference between reading on paper and reading on your computer. You do see different things. It is different to scribble notes in a margin, circle, underline, whatever than to edit online. Other than the stray chapter here and there I didn't print my novel until I was completely done and through the first many online revisions. When I did print it I used recycled paper (Staples has it, btw) and I also opted for the printing style where you print two pages per page---so it comes out looking like book, with pages side by side. The print is insanely small, but it takes up half the space. My critique partner and I swapped paper copies in that style---worked very well for adding lots of comments.
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Netti
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Re: All that paper...

Post by Netti » December 13th, 2010, 6:03 pm

Claudie wrote:I edit on the screen, but not quite the way it's usually done. See, I also had quite a few qualms about printing so many pages too, but I had trouble with the screen. You can't draw arrows on it, scribble tiny notes and questions marks, and you don't get to enjoy scratching off that whole, useless sentence getting in the way of your pacing. It's not as fun, and after a hour, it becomes hard.

So I saved my money, and bought a 9 inch, touchscreen computer, along with a program that allows me to write on PDFs. The screen can be flipped and closed over the keyboard, which transforms it into a tablet. The end result is that I can do everything I could with paper, but now it's on screen, so I don't waste any paper or ink. I also have 5.5 hours of battery, and it fits in my purse even better than 8x11 sheets.

I love it. I really do. Fixed all my problems! :)
Cool! But I probably couldn't afford it. Right now I'm an unemployed full time student who just bought a car which is currently at the mechanic awaiting diagnosis. Something to look into though; I'll be working all summer.

Cheekychook, thanks for the tip! Besides Wal-Mart there is an office supply store here but it's small so I don't know how much luck I'd have. Nothing else I'm on winter break this week and could probably pick something up on the way down or while we visit relatives or something. Other than that though, the nearest city is an hour away. All else fails I could probably order the stuff online.
"It's kind of shocking to hear Toby called a babe; sort of like calling God a studmuffin."
- Margaret Atwood, Year of the Flood

http://myscientificattempt.blogspot.com/

Claudie
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Re: All that paper...

Post by Claudie » December 13th, 2010, 6:48 pm

Netti wrote:Cool! But I probably couldn't afford it. Right now I'm an unemployed full time student who just bought a car which is currently at the mechanic awaiting diagnosis. Something to look into though; I'll be working all summer.
Just to give you an idea, I got mine for $450 CAN, shipping included. I expected quite a bit more for a touchscreen, but hey, not complaining! And hey, I don't know what you study in, but in my domain teachers give a lot of notes in PDF. It was useful for that, too. :)
"I do not think there is any thrill [...] like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... Such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything." -- Nikola Tesla

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