A Nano Parable

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Steppe
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A Nano Parable

Post by Steppe » November 7th, 2010, 11:11 am

The blinking cursor added a heartbeat to the empty pages of days gone by.
No longer does a writer need to stare down into the abyss of the blank page, or endure that most grueling of creative tortures, embodied by the fleeting hopeful promise of rescue from the raw gaping unfilled hole of the creative poverty offered by the horizontal lines of an over sized legal pad. Nay brothers and sisters, now we have the cursor and know the horrors of the real Tell-Tale Heart. Staring at the cursor beating out its relentless monolithic reminder that the keyboard is still there. The table is still there. Everything is just as it was a few beats ago. The only thing that has changed is an acuity of the senses, a sharpening of the mind as the cursor does what it does best and curses us with the thought of times palpable and inescapable passage in our solitary attempt to defy time and space so we can create an idealized locale and setting with a clock we can call our own. Ah yes; a poem, a song, a short story, or even those daredevil feats of essay called social critique where the cursor blinks steadily onward immune to criticism as the written page begins the ancient art of dancing on the lines of public probity without tumbling into the muck and mire of yesterdays politics being churned into sludge to be washed away by the next steady rain. The cautious early abstract statements we throw as bread on the waters, offering tantalizing clues as to the open and unopened questions. Thought patterns arranged in artful units waiting to be tapped like metal deposits in the psyche of the cosmos. Some that are leaden making fine loaves of a sturdy ship's ballast to keep the heartbeat of the empty page away, others like sails of fine gold filigree rapturously catching the mystical breath of life, zig-zagging gracefully between social trends, and tacking to lee or starboard depending on the prevailing winds.

There are many types of clock each representing different aspects of differing ages and periods of history.
The sun dial was a great innovation at one time but was eventually superseded by the weighted pulleys of the mechanical wheel and pendulum arm.
So today is the same war begun again, The original clock verses all new comers and pretenders to the throne, the human heart in all its flaws and majesties.
That's why the cursor mocks us so relentlessly it simply says I Am, I Am, I Am, I Am.
The cursor like the blank page of yesteryear declares itself to have been fashioned whole and without imperfection.
Yet we who hope to tame the empty pages wild inborn nature with the subtlety and brutality of the art of letters know the nature of the beast.
We are the beast. The beast lies within all of us. That great evil that was wrought on the cold steely eyed perfection of the crystalline true infinity.
To exist is to be self. By our mere existence we have eaten from the tree of knowledge and now know the many shades of gray that color the landscape between the word known as life and the word known as death, such pale pretenders compared to the cursor and blank page.
Yes they are so playful together aren't they. They pretend to know something which we don't trying to force us into the role of the cursor who merely intones and blathers repeatedly. I Am, I Am, I Am, I Am, without ever possessing the hope of filling even a single line never mind a whole page without the prompting of some outside force to propel it onward to the horizon of its unlimited destiny.
The beating of my own heart and its abundant willingness to engage the empty page and its modern ally the cursor in a life or death struggle against the forces of non-creation, this is what gives life to life and death to death. The ability to choose and weight and measure according to ones own will. Certainly mistakes shall be made along the way, is not the road of excess the pathway to the palace of wisdom. Having known existence as self can we simply stare into the void chanting: I Am, I Am, I Am, I Am?
Nay brothers and sisters we are the enchanters of incantations that form worlds unto themselves.
Well yes I'll grant the doubter this; a person of many acts of lettering may fall prey to hop scotching through his own creations trying to avoid that one unruly creation which has spun out of control and through some oversight of a particular conundrums peculiarities, and stages of metamorphosis, into a wholly belligerent form, ones own creation has turned causing it's original creator to have found themselves being pursued by a shadow cast and long forgotten.
That was the genesis of the phrase; "Better the devil you now than the devil you don't." Would you prefer to be persecuted and prosecuted by your own creations or would you prefer to be tortured by someone else. I am all for mixing and choosing my own poisons to be administered strategically and in due orders and the timings of my own original clock. I brush away the unworthy dust of other peoples words with the type of simple platitudes such whirlwinds cast by the minor minions of letters deserve. A simple "Be Gone." or if need be the more stately "ashes to ashes, dust to dust."
To attack the forlorn void of the empty page is to have an arsenal of ten thousand thoughts arrayed like an armada of ships each a singular unit, a fighting force capable of standing alone or acting in concert with every other. The void knows not the geometry of your thoughts, like the cursor it must stand as a mute witness to the acts of creation. When you parry it counters, when you feint it attempts to stab your heart, when you lean left it attempts to sweep low hoping to unfoot you.
It reacts it does not act. That is the difference between existence and self. Both are fundamental a priori concepts whose only definition is pure theory, pure thought, pure form that are only available to any fruitful discussion by a process of deductive reasoning and not provable by argument based on facts.
Can you prove you exist? Can I prove I exist?
We assert that we exist and let the proof be damned into hell.
It goes back to the dilemma of the cursor and the abyss of the empty page.
Descartes thought he made a great advance by formulating his whole philosophy into the branded icon. "I think, therefore I am,"
Doesn't the cursor attempt the same faulty logic all over again building premise upon repetitive premise without the hope of the light as a word of creation.
I blink therefore I Am, I blink therefore I Am, I Blink...
"NO!! NO!! NO!!. That's the epic retort to the redundancy of the imbecilic pulse of non-creation that is the cursor and empty page.
If the cursor pursues the argument force it to overcome the mechanical certainty of restating the facts more precisely.
I Blink Therefore I Blink verse I am therefore I am
Don't allow it to jump forth into the existence of creation claiming self hood, force it to define its argument and right to exist.
Poor Descartes relegated to arguing in college philosophy textbooks and the occasional wanderer who stumbles upon his one branded act of iconic creation.
Worse still, far, far, far, worse actually is the primordial fate of Friedrich Nietzsche; as we linger on the meaning of the battle between the cursor and empty page and leisurely peer into the ancient abyss of wordsmiths being churned into a dully colored froth that constitutes the sludgy flotsam and jetsam excreted by the great whirling engine of creation that is existence, yes Nietzsche sealed his own fate and believed in the battle between the cursor and the empty page.
Granted back then it was cotton paper, the quill and the ink well but the battle was still between Mr. Nothing and Mr. Something with Mr. Anything standing off to the side listening intently hoping to fashion his own simple home spun form into the more illustrious and prestigious Mr. Everything.
GOD IS DEAD
Talk about shooting yourself in the face when you were aiming at your foot hoping to draw a little blood and maybe some sympathy and a bowl of soup from some kind heart more fortunate than yourself.
GOD IS GOD
DEAD IS DEAD
ZUCCHINI IS ZUCCHINI
Like Duh... Do we have to put every freaking wordsmith on the last train to Satanville just to understand the simplest of ideas.
I think one of the first things all people should learn is the meaning of the word is.
Forget kindergarten and first second and third grade just let the little buggers walk around like blood pumping cursors from hell staring blankly at the page of life repeating the sacred catechism of The Holy IS. A tree is a tree, a mountain is a mountain, a person is a person, etc is etc etc etc etc!
How and when would they graduate? Simple. One question and one question only; WHY?
Then for college and after graduate work all students would be forced to speak only that one word.
Very few students would graduate and there would probably only be two or three PhD's in all the land if not world.
What would be the realization that these few geniuses came to that struck them in the same way it is rumored Isaac Newton was struck by an apple.
One day, one of these scholarly men or women on the great undertaking of pursuing the path of knowledge, given by the previously discussed existence of existence and its logical action partnership, with the idea that is self, would proclaim like a monkey climbing down out of the Savannah into the grasslands and walking upright non-stop for the first time straight into a three piece suit and onto a college lectern and declaring forthwith: "BECAUSE I SAY SO!"
The murmurs and wonders and rumbling echoes. In that moment the crowd of blank cursors staring at the empty page of life would declare that great thinker had come amongst them, a genius never to be equaled or paralleled again in annals of human history...
Or... It could go slightly differently. Maybe a light would come on in a few blank eyes and the blinking cursor would be silenced as teams of two or three or even four cursors and empty pages whispered in hushed conspiratorial tones; "because I say so, because I say so, because I say so." just before they carry the mad professor of the radical heresy "The Because" off to the dungeon to be drawn and quartered before being boiled alive in oil and stuffed into a pickle jar displayed next to all the other former blinking cursors of those selfs who dared to defy the blank page of existence and took up analogies and metaphors and similes and strode forth into a sea of troubles of his own knowing creation casting aside every is and thwarting every as with savage blows from the mighty trumpet that creates a mountain, climbs it and blares forth into the wilderness of the void; "NO NO NO."
When that wicked spirit that dwelleth in the wilderness slithering comes forth with its mighty and weighted counter argument; "Why?"
Stare that echo of the light that was once sludge discharged in the wake of creation right in the face and say: "Because I say so."
It could go on like that for quite some time but eventually the echoing snakes of old creations dissolve into the creative fodder of new untouched fields of creative activity and ask the much simpler question; "How?"
Then with existence accepted as eternal and self accepted as eternal the formerly blank pages can be lovingly edited and clarified and classified with the Wizards of IS peacefully discussing an infinite array of topics with the Wizards of AS generated by the determined and resolute response to never again let a blinking cursor or a blank page go to waste even if one is occasionally boiled in oil or left bereft and without direction home in the endless crystalline purity of the infinite which lies even beyond the wasteland of dying snakes and decaying thought forms.
An Idea is an Idea.
The Self is The Self
Existence is Existence
It is better to face the challenge of the I Am cursor and The God that is the blank page.
Even to be hunted and stalked by ones own errant creations, on those rare occasional editorial safaris back into the grassy plains of the Savannah, than to forever live in an island of creation, that one has not heard, but one word, from your eternal existence known as self.
Find a worthy opponent the way death found life and life found death or the way the cursor finds and empty page and the empty page finds a cursor.
Then type a few words. A great piece of NO NO NO literature that uses the "BECAUSE I SAY SO" formula starts off very simply with; In the beginning...
It moves along rapidly after that to some serious spell casting and world building but it does start rather simply; In the beginning...
I leave off this editorial essay on the worth of clarity in the info age with some thoughtful words from Nietzsche on the clarity of actions, being in the power thought has, when embodied in the way of existence, and the way of the self interacting with existence, like a needle and thread, to repeatedly pierce a chosen piece of cloth while dragging and then forming a simple to grand design.

You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.
Friedrich Nietzsche
A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything.
Friedrich Nietzsche

The Battle is Joined

Dot

Dot

DOT.

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polymath
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Re: A Nano Parable

Post by polymath » November 7th, 2010, 12:42 pm

Oh, perspective. Socrates, Descartes, Spinoza, Liebniz, and Kant tended toward a rationalism approach to perspective. Descartes' Cogito major premise argues the ability to doubt is proof of existence from an objective perspective, basically, that thinking beings do exist independently of external influences. In other words, supposes predetermination's presupposition a thinking being is incapable of free will is null and void.

Nietzche and others of his mien argue a perspectivist approach to predetermination and free will, what's true for one perspective isn't neccesarily true for another perspective. His "God is Dead" conclusion isn't so much a refutation of supernaturally ordained predetermination as it is one person's perspective that predetermination will no longer rule his existence; he's able to exercise free will.

In one sense if a philospher argues Earth's sky is orange, that can be true in one perspective simply by assigning a different set of symbols to the blue bandwidth wavelength of the electromagnetic spectrum. In that singular perspective orange means what others take for granted means blue, internally sufficient for one person's perspective. The sky can appear orange in some perspectives simply from observing a night sky lit by the garish glow of mercury vapor lamps, and perhaps from raging wildfires or one of the many primordial extinction event meteor bombardments as well.

However, therein is the value of consensus acceptances regarding global if not universal truths. They are agreed upon by tacit or implicit acceptance as true for the sake of reasonably effective communication between social beings. There are smaller truths, of a national value, a regional value, a local value, a group value, or an individual value, and what's true in the moment might not be equally true in a past or future moment or other places or situations.
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Steppe
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Re: A Nano Parable

Post by Steppe » November 8th, 2010, 8:46 am

It was an expansion of your basic form.

Protagonist
Goal
Complication
Outcome


In the end Descartes and Nietzsche were both writers like Poe.
I would never argue against the premise that "Reality Is An Agreement."
The hermit or solo wanderer can create freely with only their internal dissonance to trouble them.
Within the confines of; over-sets master sets, sets, subsets and the individual struggling to be dynamic all great drama is born.

I almost tossed in Shakespeares "The glass of fashion the mold of form" into the essay but nixed it internally

You have probably encountered this material in some form or another.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cw-zNRNc ... playnext=1

If you get a chance your opinion would be valuable.
I pursue world building models of the logical variety.

My counter argument whether valid or invalid is:

0/0=1
1/0=0
0/1=0
1/1=1

The primary counter argument resting on the opening statement 0/0=1

Expanded colloquially as:

The Infinite Nothing
Dived By
The Infinite Nothing
Equals
A Search For A Finite Sum

Protagonist 0/0
Goal 0/1
Complication 1/0
Outcome 1/1

Thanks for commenting.

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polymath
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Re: A Nano Parable

Post by polymath » November 8th, 2010, 5:58 pm

I chuckle at the erroneous assumptions Cantor, Botzmann, Gödel, and Turing, and other great thinkers made based on preconceived equally erroneous notions that nonetheless led to great advances in their respective fields. Of course, everything begins somewhere, except an as yet unproven or proven origination deity. From great mistakes have come great discoveries. However, basing a hypothesis on flawed data is as likely to be as logically flawed as the outcome.

One of the more common flaws of data is a lack of sufficient input. Therein is one of the great paradigms of discovery. As more data becomes available, greater advances can take place. Something as straightforward and taken for granted today as the use of zero as a computation number is not all that old compared to human history. Add in negative numbers and mathematics advanced exponentially. Imaginary numbers didn't come along until recently and knowledge expanded exponentially again as a consequence. I ask, What happens next? What new operator will be discovered that might make some unprovable assumptions provable, and advance the human condition.

Add on top of that that of late natural laws that at one time were taken as absolutes have been demonstrated as not perfectly absolute. Quantum physics evidence suggests that causation law is not as absolute as previously believed; an effect apparently can come before its inciting cause. The absolute asymptote of light speed might not be so absolute as believed. A theoretical tachyon dimensional realm has been suggested by mathematical means, but remains theoretical due to as yet nonobservable, undiscovered phenomena.

The absolute zero asymptote at the opposite end of entropy is under siege as well. Perhaps a fractyon dimensional realm exists beyond absolute zero, some kind of negative entropy realm where as entropy approaches negative infinity it transcends the undefinable value of infinity and enters the theoretical approaching infinity positive entropy tachyon dimensional realm. Infinity as yet at least seems an unassailable asymptote.

Two great science advances of the middle Nineteenth century drove many of the advances that followed and continue through to today: the scientific method and the scientific model. Empircal and axiomatic observation had driven progress up through that time. In an advance guard of Postmodernism's self-aware challenging and questioning absolutes and accepted authorities, the scientific method and model challenged and questioned accepted scientific beliefs. I ask again, What happens next?

In narrative arts are speculations, quesstimates, perspectives of idealized approximate imitations of reality: proxy realities. No one could ever fully realize a completely perfect portrayal of even a grain of sand, though a consensus agreement mostly accepts a generalized understanding of the significance, signal, signifier, and signified meaning of the term grain of sand. For example, it might have a mass of 0.001 moles, which is also a count of the sand's constituent compound molecules. Say pure silicon or as pure as the scientific model demands for purposes of counting its mass and number of molecules or atoms. So the molar mass and molecular count of that particular grain of sand is roughly 6.023^23 times 0.001. And each of those large numbers of silicon molecules have their own unique and ever changing identities. Far too burdensome for narrative purposes, I'm sure.

A world war involves the individual unique perspectives of the entire globe and from that time forward. How many billions have been affected can be counted, not the multiple proxy realities of ever shifting perspectives. Many, many individual perspectives, approaching infinity as time marches on, and many ever changing identities shifting in action and reaction to the many other perspectives.

A basic scientific model of a dynamic system bases its complexity factor on a relatively simple seeming equation. f of x = |(N^N)/N| factored as |N^(N-1)|, where N equals the number of discrete, discernible components of the dynamic system. Plugging a few values in for N demonstrates a few components is a manageable number, say 0, equals an undefinable answer. A whole number divided by 0 is undefinable. There's that pesky infinity thingy cropping up. 1 divided by 0 equals infinity, which is undefined. 1 = 1^0 or 1, 2 = 2^1 or 2. The result rises exponentially after that. 3^2 = 9, 4^3 = 64. Much higher and the result becomes difficult for a human mind to conceptualize. Add in computerized minds and very large numbers become manageable, but at some point, as infinity approaches, even today's most massive supercomputers are unable to handle the computation, if one ever will be able to. There's an asymptote looming out there where it's incalculable, because to do so would consume the entire known and unknown universe. Maybe that's what's going on in the universe, a very large object that's calculating the sum of infinite variables and will consume itself in the process. Answer, not defined; therefore, recalculate. Big Bang. Recalculate until infinity.

I started out studying narratology assuming the necessity of plot could be disproven and as much to prove its necessity as learn all its ramifications for my own purposes. So far, the theory stands. I've analysed Joyce's Ulysses. It's one of the most indicted so-called plotless narratives. It was a tough nut to crack, but crack it I did and confirm for myself it has the same plot shape as any other narrative, although it's disguised by ephemeral subtext. I've yet to find a single fully-realized narrative that deviates from the basic plot shape. I encounter projects in progress that lack for a full realization of organization, but follow nonetheless some discernible, basic organizing structure. The beauty of narrative arts though, is there are an infinite number of possible perspective expressions that fit that skeletal shape. The |N^(N-1)| formula suggests it is so.

Four variable elements; plot, character, setting, discourse; each with a gamut of attributes. Take plot: causation, tension, and antagonism, unity, crises, outcomes, introductions, rising and falling action scenes, denouements. Take causation's cause and effect and connect its train to the other attributes of plot, and character, setting, and discourse. Throw theme and rhetoric elements and their manifold attributes into the mix. An infinite variable polynomial equation might define narrative's inherent structure, aesthetics, and nuances, but I'm not going to try. That way lies madness. The number is too large for any mind to grasp. Fortunately, the intuitive capabiities of writers don't require more than a basic understanding of that theoretical shape.

However, the equation matrix you propose is a noteworthy scientific model, worth it if it helps you to conceptualize what it represents, which is the purpose of scientific modeling. From such humble beginnings did Aristarchus build on the knowledge of the ancients, and every astronomer since.
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Re: A Nano Parable

Post by Steppe » November 10th, 2010, 10:00 am

I'm going to use this discussion attached to the outline form as a series of logical and emotional constraints as I construct my battle scene to end book three.
I have my Nazi time travelers trapped under a deck until my autonomic intelligence (AI)releases them to finalize the historical time lines slice while holding them inside a virtual moment.
The actual physicality of the world in contention has already been compressed into a ring given to the worlds former administrator who is the MC and the final outcome will be imprinted on the small stones in the ring after the equation is closed. He has already been ejected by the process and is back in the real linear world of daily life. So there is quite a bit of refereed and supervised mass murder and global mayhem about to occur in this Acts Virtual Apocolypse
I shall be using very verbose "Paradise Lost" style verbiage interspersed with the simplest ideas pictograms of the battle between finites and infinites as eternals vs immortals.
Mortal one virtual ring
Immortal; two virtual rings
Eternal: as three virtual rings.
The Eternals are three to five beings depending on he how and why of the zero point engines configurations.

888
88
888
8 virtual moment - two wave staggered pulse for coherent interference patterns as world building basics: nodes grids lattices barriers platforms bridges ()ships.
888
State Transitions to.
***
**
***
* virtual moment full recursion sorting and compaction in preparation to initiating new pulse-10vs01 as transferable barrier
***
State Transitions to.
8=*
8=/*
State Transitions to.

Repeats line 1 from top most as 3 circuits of the Zero Point Engines as newly repeating AI patterns 888 from origin series.
888
88
888
8 virtual moment - next incidence two wave staggered pulse. Pulse rate = 1/0.000>72 (dual seventy two zeros<> staggered lattice laddering)
888


The players in the story representing a personification of a "War of Ideas" very similar to "CORE WARS" the coding game where a Turing like linear memory is assigned a length value and the warriors are deposited at random on the core line to begin executing their code in one instruction per clock cycle increments . The simplest an imp (single cycle tick deployment )who copies itself before commanding itself to move one space for a single clock cycle warrior as opposed to more elaborate warriors who take 2-N? to assemble and begin scouting and attacking. With your interest in maths I bet your familiar with the game. I found it and loaded warriors into the simulator recently.
My battle is like that. If the computation goes awry and fails the clock in the real world gets reset (to a random date) due to a failed bracket/boundary system between the finite realms and infinite realms of pure computation.

I watched the BBC's "Dangerous Knowledge" twice last Spring using a ten day separation between viewings and have an old set of notes from the second viewing to compare with the new ones written just before taking your commentary into studied consideration after a brief preview yesterday and resolution to watch the material again seeing as the opportunity to explore it further arose.

(Quick aside: The Quantum Thief was recently sold as a three book deal on a one chapter proposal.)

Polymath - Comment-01

I chuckle at the erroneous assumptions Cantor, Botzmann, Gödel, and Turing, and other great thinkers made based on preconceived equally erroneous notions that nonetheless led to great advances in their respective fields. Of course, everything begins somewhere, except an as yet unproven or proven origination deity. From great mistakes have come great discoveries. However, basing a hypothesis on flawed data is as likely to be as logically flawed as the outcome.

Steppe - Reply

Yeah man that was a bit of a sad story and I am glad for the third viewing because of someone else's reflections on the subject matter.
I liked this wordage using deity in a way I can closely associate with the word "Core" as a Zero Point Engine. I am not in search of a first cause
and consider that a boundary equation without consideration of realms and division of domains: your quote "except an as yet unproven or proven origination deity."
Brilliant use of terms for a succinct self explanatory comment.
I have created my own core many times and it has created me many times. It is a process of refining the information into reusable scalable packages to create usable interference patterns as recursive boundary equations to divide domains similar to the way electronic piping control information channels in a computer operating systems division of the disks magnetic space.

Polymath - Comment-02

One of the more common flaws of data is a lack of sufficient input. Therein is one of the great paradigms of discovery. As more data becomes available, greater advances can take place. Something as straightforward and taken for granted today as the use of zero as a computation number is not all that old compared to human history. Add in negative numbers and mathematics advanced exponentially. Imaginary numbers didn't come along until recently and knowledge expanded exponentially again as a consequence. I ask, What happens next? What new operator will be discovered that might make some unprovable assumptions provable, and advance the human condition.

Steppe - Reply

Some very logical convergence between the pictographs available by M-Brane Theory and the boundary creating and controlling tools of Information Theory.
The pursuit of the main transition stages from instantaneous event horizon to event horizon information transfers of the autonomic variety that enable a fingernail to be a fingernail from birth to death in a thermal arrow of expanding time spheres as proofed by quantum entanglements spin direction changes at a distance.
Opposing the instantaneous transfers of pure information in the vast realms of resistance supplied by lightspeed multiples and divisions winking on and off as information is sorted and transferred back to the extended moment of Now-ness we perceive as daily routine consciousness between event horizons. The middle zero or virtual circle-sphere living being referred to as the "mortal coil" as some clever rhetorical literature is occasionally want to refer to it as.
Thinking your original comment-02 over. The production of zero point transversable barrier systems.
Most mysterious sky objects are poorly formed information packages ranging from sincere exploration to fun loving crank calling juvenile delinquents.
Most coherent stable appearances of sky objects are a iconic form of advanced information processing as an input ready, instruction receiving, hierarchical searching device, prepared for an output generation, suitable to the clients weighted needs and best long term interest; as their intrinsic unseen geometry is adjusted to aid in their pursuit of freely chosen and parallel system enhancing objectives. That is my view though not a popular one or very monetizable one.
Using your style of logical constraints about deity classification I would say that when a person encounters a sky object they either mostly own it or they mostly don't with some percentages of ownership more conducive to satisfaction than others depending on the persons goal structures.

Polymath - Comment-03
Add on top of that that of late natural laws that at one time were taken as absolutes have been demonstrated as not perfectly absolute. Quantum physics evidence suggests that causation law is not as absolute as previously believed; an effect apparently can come before its inciting cause. The absolute asymptote of light speed might not be so absolute as believed. A theoretical tachyon dimensional realm has been suggested by mathematical means, but remains theoretical due to as yet nonobservable, undiscovered phenomena.

Steppe - Reply
I wouldn't add or remove a word from above and understand the implications and have read all those forms of questioning research and proof of concept as refereed papers. In short; I totally freaking agree. Plus as you state in C2 it all leads to new assemblages of data-info-systems-knowledge/ brink /wisdom discovery sequences.

Polymath - Comment-04
The absolute zero asymptote at the opposite end of entropy is under siege as well. Perhaps a fractyon dimensional realm exists beyond absolute zero, some kind of negative entropy realm where as entropy approaches negative infinity it transcends the undefinable value of infinity and enters the theoretical approaching infinity positive entropy tachyon dimensional realm. Infinity as yet at least seems an unassailable asymptote.

Steppe - Reply
Nice word usage "fractyon". The negative or inward infinity providing a staggered resistance between bounded finites and its use of space outside the constraints of the dual event horizon of expanding cloud that has swallowed or created it's own vacuum pressure stabilization system through organic natural selection between realms and domains in need of division to stay operating as non-rock like domains still capable of both instant and staggered light speed multiples.
Quoting you: " Infinity as yet at least seems an unassailable asymptote"
Yes it shall always, at least in ten based systems, equal the infinite nines as 99.999999 > 9999 % of all observable and unobservables.
Maybe that's where the phrase dressed to the nine originates. (quirk thought)

Polymath - Comment-05
Two great science advances of the middle Nineteenth century drove many of the advances that followed and continue through to today: the scientific method and the scientific model. Empircal and axiomatic observation had driven progress up through that time. In an advance guard of Postmodernism's self-aware challenging and questioning absolutes and accepted authorities, the scientific method and model challenged and questioned accepted scientific beliefs. I ask again, What happens next?

Steppe - Reply
I'm looking for two events with a theoretical middle to appear. A vast appearance of gear and equipments.
In linear time 03/23/2011 & 03/23/2013 as routine mechanical upgrades to the system we occupy in response to routine expansion requirements.
I say that clinically to avoid making a hullabaloo about something that either shall or shall not happen. I hope it does because I am grateful to have lived here.
If it doesn't happen, is more puzzling to me than if it does. I already have what I want but I would within a healthy degree like to see others enjoy wider horizons.
Safety precautions with information containers/ships are such that only consciousness can travel in them. They recreate you every time you enter and exit and a person could get stuck with a full twelve division legion or two dogging their trail of very similar selfs. Great for war games but the need for a female element usually... Usually is the unforeseeable discovery.
Enough about that I think. (quirk)
Specifically great things(unusual) are going to happen or not happen. The underlying state is approaching a basic fabric border zone conducive to downloading a whole lot of stuff we have as a group consciousness already created time/instance and time/instance again. Its a probability flux situation where I am pushing for huge acquisitions based on the input "The Good of The Whole of The All." even though people sometimes get their heads bashed in for going that route.
I don't know the answer to the question only the input I used to get the answer. 03/23/2011 & 03/23/2013 AS "The Good of The Whole of The All."
its a variation Zero Point Engine T.O.E/ 32313
32313
Vs
11111
Vs
32313
In figure eight toroidal shaped circuitry with repeating (visible) virtual moments for study purposes.
All of the above only exists in my world and I recognize it as delusion content to try to achieve agreement on the above with others. Its best that way.
On the other hand if it happens people might say: "who are you to be playing mad scientist anyway" The Dexter and Deedee cartoon character paradox.
People didn't get to hung up on that mystery missile that mysteriously launched itself the other day so maybe my paranoia's are misplaced.
The gear I'm thinking of is large though 60x60x60 miles and you have too keep a safe distance or your consciousness gets overloaded by unprocessed static.

Polymath - Comment-006

In narrative arts are speculations, quesstimates, perspectives of idealized approximate imitations of reality: proxy realities. No one could ever fully realize a completely perfect portrayal of even a grain of sand, though a consensus agreement mostly accepts a generalized understanding of the significance, signal, signifier, and signified meaning of the term grain of sand. For example, it might have a mass of 0.001 moles, which is also a count of the sand's constituent compound molecules. Say pure silicon or as pure as the scientific model demands for purposes of counting its mass and number of molecules or atoms. So the molar mass and molecular count of that particular grain of sand is roughly 6.023^23 times 0.001. And each of those large numbers of silicon molecules have their own unique and ever changing identities. Far too burdensome for narrative purposes, I'm sure

Steppe - Reply
That encapsulates my dilemma very well not boring the reader with projectile vomitage as stray information dumps that soil the readers dream experience.
My first draft shall be complete after this great battle and falling sequences to the denouement that I can only fathom after the battle is done.

Polymath - Comment-007
A world war involves the individual unique perspectives of the entire globe and from that time forward. How many billions have been affected can be counted, not the multiple proxy realities of ever shifting perspectives. Many, many individual perspectives, approaching infinity as time marches on, and many ever changing identities shifting in action and reaction to the many other perspectives.

Steppe - Reply
The distinction you draw in sentence two is the gist of the series I wrote. A point where the expanding equation balked and dumped the unneeded proxy reality as to heavy and infinitely burdensome to carry.
Quote "and many ever changing identities shifting in action and reaction to the many other perspectives."
The retro-causality implications are staggering but I believe the past ditched them the moment the three bounty hunters showed up Abraham's tent
representing a deity that was still in control of its own sequential progressions and border zone and info transit lines manufacturing capacities.
I look at the entire Bible as an attempt to roll out computational services to new customers using a stock formula of simple narrative analogy.
A staggering implication of black project discovery was your sentence just quoted and boiled down to world lines and their application to specific personalities living in the here and now and the there and then of the fore light cones and reverse information light cones. That's the part they are uncomfortable with but getting better.


Polymath - Comment-08
A basic scientific model of a dynamic system bases its complexity factor on a relatively simple seeming equation. f of x = |(N^N)/N| factored as |N^(N-1)|, where N equals the number of discrete, discernible components of the dynamic system. Plugging a few values in for N demonstrates a few components is a manageable number, say 0, equals an undefinable answer. A whole number divided by 0 is undefinable. There's that pesky infinity thingy cropping up. 1 divided by 0 equals infinity, which is undefined. 1 = 1^0 or 1, 2 = 2^1 or 2.

Steppe - Reply
That takes time to absorb in relation to other examples I have.
Not something I would want to pop off a comment about.
I understand the logic and domains but would need to reflect on the equation to reap more than just conversational value. It seems important.

Polymath - Comment-09
The result rises exponentially after that. 3^2 = 9, 4^3 = 64. Much higher and the result becomes difficult for a human mind to conceptualize. Add in computerized minds and very large numbers become manageable, but at some point, as infinity approaches, even today's most massive supercomputers are unable to handle the computation, if one ever will be able to. There's an asymptote looming out there where it's incalculable, because to do so would consume the entire known and unknown universe. Maybe that's what's going on in the universe, a very large object that's calculating the sum of infinite variables and will consume itself in the process. Answer, not defined; therefore, recalculate. Big Bang. Recalculate until infinity.

Steppe - Reply
That clarified the equation used in C8 with examples. It was similar to when I previewed the article before re-watching the BBC series.
Quote; "Maybe that's what's going on in the universe, a very large object that's calculating the sum of infinite variables and will consume itself in the process. Answer, not defined; therefore, recalculate. Big Bang. Recalculate until infinity."
That's my opinion also we experience it as a single Big Bang when the process reaches the downward limit of negative infinity and the informational channels are packed to the maximum degree predicted by the previous state the Big Bang occurs again as an information shock wave received by slow to process near infinite event horizon space. It's a tough sequence to nail down in tight equations.

Polymath - Comment-10

I started out studying narratology assuming the necessity of plot could be disproven and as much to prove its necessity as learn all its ramifications for my own purposes. So far, the theory stands. I've analysed Joyce's Ulysses. It's one of the most indicted so-called plotless narratives. It was a tough nut to crack, but crack it I did and confirm for myself it has the same plot shape as any other narrative, although it's disguised by ephemeral subtext. I've yet to find a single fully-realized narrative that deviates from the basic plot shape. I encounter projects in progress that lack for a full realization of organization, but follow nonetheless some discernible, basic organizing structure. The beauty of narrative arts though, is there are an infinite number of possible perspective expressions that fit that skeletal shape. The |N^(N-1)| formula suggests it is so.

Steppe - Reply
Your comment gives a deep background example of your facility with authentic plot tools, their usage and reason for their origination.

Polymath - Comment-11
Four variable elements; plot, character, setting, discourse; each with a gamut of attributes. Take plot: causation, tension, and antagonism, unity, crises, outcomes, introductions, rising and falling action scenes, denouements. Take causation's cause and effect and connect its train to the other attributes of plot, and character, setting, and discourse. Throw theme and rhetoric elements and their manifold attributes into the mix. An infinite variable polynomial equation might define narrative's inherent structure, aesthetics, and nuances, but I'm not going to try. That way lies madness. The number is too large for any mind to grasp. Fortunately, the intuitive capabiities of writers don't require more than a basic understanding of that theoretical shape

Steppe - Reply

A diamond shaped form I use sometimes for other analytic purposes.

. Setting
.
.
.
. Plot Discourse Characters
.
.
.
.
. Denouement
.

Assignment of colors to each character could empty the diagram above as a stage mark X.
A point where a certain amount of currency is spent by the colored character with possible changed outcomes to the five principle
positions assigned a geometric shape. Change setting discourse and a characters get a tri-arc-coin with a 90arc and 45degree stairway to right.
A possible cumulative approach to a characters overall arc similar to acquiring possessions and currency in multi-dice Role Playing Games

High value coins.
A diamond & point
A diamond with a line
A diamond with a intersect ..being top currency

An unbounded equation as you suggest if thought f in linear runs.
I have seen people attempt it with the correlations of musical overtones and the graph gets pretty darn crowded and very helter skelter pretty darn quick.

Polymath - Comment-12
However, the equation matrix you propose is a noteworthy scientific model, worth it if it helps you to conceptualize what it represents, which is the purpose of scientific modeling. From such humble beginnings did Aristarchus build on the knowledge of the ancients, and every astronomer since.

Steppe - Reply
Its good to get it drawn out and mapped up as tools for the finishing of this long first draft.
I use that diamond form to help me graph infinities and their boundary horizons. Your thoughts on the negative inward potential staggering of the pure informational turnarounds that suddenly might enter undiscovered channels where they are processed as/of protected coherent information sheaths is something I'll give a lot of thought to. The negative infinity is only something I grasped since 2004 after the CBMR figures were in and I did some table top toy model research.
The unlimited downward and upward resizing of information that can effect the middle extended Nows. I am very convinced of this loop effect after six years.

Thanks for your help man.
Hopefully I won't drive WW3 off the road in my epic and can get it safely to the information super disposal unit in the sky with apropos virtual moments in sub-space.

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Re: A Nano Parable

Post by Steppe » November 10th, 2010, 10:11 am

A couple of bits that popped up searching along.

"For want of a verb the sentence lost its predicate. For want of a sentence the paragraph lost its meaning.
For want of a paragraph the story lost its ending. For want of an ending eternity lost the infinite.
For want of an eternity the infinite searches itself forever more."

Time is the lock
Consciousness the key



---------------------------------

A mashing of the butterfly effect proverb and a tag line to start a chapter.

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Re: A Nano Parable

Post by polymath » November 10th, 2010, 12:30 pm

World building is a whole lot of fun. Most of it doesn't make its way into a publishable narrative because readers' Expectations and Cultural Coding Conventions won't stand for it. In the end, it's all about the story. Sufficient expository detail for credibility's sake is nonetheless secondary to elementals plot, character, setting, and discourse; and the influences of reader surrogate, be it setting, plot (expressly antagonism's complication and purpose identities), idea, character, and/or event, SPICE; and writing mode priority, description, introspection, action, narration, emotion, sensation, summarization, exposition, conversation, recollection, explanation, and transition, DIANE'S SECRET.

Readers' E&CCCs prefer a reported viewpoint character as a reader surrogate. Plot is the organizational engine driving readers' emotional responses incited by rapport (emotional resonance) with a familiar stranger suffering an insuperable dilemma in a dramatic proxy reality: character, setting, and discourse. The principal writing modes in one hierarchal order according to readers' E&CCCs are sensation, action, conversation, emotion, and introspection, or any other hierarchal or causal order of the same set. However, those writing modes are intuitively distinguishable but not divisible. For example, a reported conversation is a narration description of a summarization of an action perceived as an aural sensation. Add on dialogue attribution and a reported dialogue also includes exposition, explanation, and transition. A thought action attribution is introspection and might also include emotion. In a sentence or two, all the writing modes might come into play.

I'm reminded of Algis Budry's "The Stoker and the Stars" ** for its lack of explanatory world building. The characters, settings, and complications are reported with very little cognitive processing as they are timely perceived by the narrator. The story's emotional payoff comes as a profound revelation in the denouement. It's not a conflict resolution ending, though.

However, revelation endings tend not to be as successful or as common in the marketplace as conflict resolution endings. There's that readers' E&CCCs phenomena again. The Pareto Principle states that for many events eighty percent of the effects come from twenty percent of the causes. Narratives' ending types seem to conform to that principle; roughly eighty percent of published works have conflict resolution endings (cause), one of five or twenty percent of basic ending types, and account for twenty percent achieving reasonably successful popularity status (effect). Actually, the same could be said for any given narrative: eighty percent of a narrative's evoked emotional responses come from twenty percent of the causes. The inverse, twenty percent of a narrative's evoked emotional responses come from eighty percent of the causes. Unfortunately, after all the fun of world building, exhaustive world building incorporated into a narrative falls in the latter category. The story is the final determinant.

** Algis Budry's "The Stoker and the Stars" at Project Gutenberg;
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/22967
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Re: A Nano Parable

Post by Steppe » November 11th, 2010, 4:56 am

I'm going to work that "skirting the line between tech and emotion" in as dialogues and short tasteful info dumps while the characters confront each other and turn on each other over what they perceives is a failed attempt at world building (as a former real universe fails and goes virtual/like dreams instead of day-life)based on their own failed(outdated-simple healthy evolution) tech that they built based more on fear of self and others. So far the world building and transitions have been 95% non-technical and character driven, with extended exposure of the workings being younger characters seeking advice from older or more deeply involved characters.

The characters do burrow deeper into tech in order to try to gain selfish goals at times so it becomes obvious they are pretending to understand something continuously similar to someone driving a car contemplating the marvels of combustion engines instead of looking out for stop signs and red lights.

Some risk about the reader balking at social conventions I need to take just to feel I'm pushing the edge. Yet I balance it with my characters discomfort over the same issues. I'll check out the Gutenberg source material.

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Re: A Nano Parable

Post by Steppe » November 11th, 2010, 8:20 am

** Algis Budry's "The Stoker and the Stars" at Project Gutenberg;
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/22967

I read this slowly and enjoyed it.
It has that effect you speak of as "dramatic unit."
I read about half and then broke for small tasks with the imagery remaining vivid and returned twenty minutes later for the second half breaking along with an action/explanation break.

The thing I got most from this besides a good example of first/third person limited (I believe? Not sure!) I focused on the emotional verses world building pacing issue.
But what I gathered is a rule of thumb that I can use to sum up your last post with examples of art vs craft, in the very concrete format of emotion and intellect cooperating to deepen the stories ability to inflate itself texturally in the readers mind like an inner movie. The rule of thumb to encapsulate those ideas I shall use is
"Tech = Effect "

In Budry's story the tech was always of limited duration and furthered the readers understanding of the narrator's or protagonist's movement through different levels of struggle or acceptance of circumstance in the story.
That example implies repetitive tech is OK as a "brief!" introductory to further the plots setting. To reach the point in my current WIP there have been enough
lyrical and technical inserts for the reader to buy into the idea that there is an underlying logic to the world built even if the MC and SC's have different levels of acceptance and cooperation with a world that is ultimately now begun fluctuating in response to accommodating their potential linear futures as eternal beings who must occasionally appear and sign off on the process of making certain world functions permanent or semi-permanent installations and deleting obsolete forms.
The same issue your example explored as embodied by the opening statement;
(...)
JOHN A. SENTRY
When you've had your ears pinned back in a bowknot,
it's sometimes hard to remember that an intelligent people
has no respect for a whipped enemy ... but does for a fairly beaten enemy.

With my literary critic masked dawned it seemed like a "Come to Spaceman Jesus," moment. Similar to "Sailor Jesus (Desmond in - LOST or Biker Jesus, Dean in - SUPERNATURAL in variations of the book of life/memory icon becomes traveling gnome tour guide reviewer style gigs.
I printed it out and stored it in a particularly discreet directory/folder/file.
In my story Jesus is a bounty hunter who decides to "take a grenade for the team," rather than annihilate the consciousness of Enoch and John The Divine of Revelation-Apocalypse fame. In the far future he is a grown of version of Harry Potter with a self inflicted case of amnesia, once again forced to play out the silent partner role to his younger more stage struck and approval seeking comrades. Similar to Dantes Virgil I model the MC's cohorts on Dylan as Enoch and Lennon as John The Divine.

I went to reference a story I once had called Psi Corps which got lost in a OP System re-install but allowed intuition to lead me to a much better example.

The Psilent Partner, by Edward S. Staub and John Victor Peterson
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/31735/31 ... 1735-h.htm

Your example is a much more refined idea of the archetypal story encoding to stimulate the mind to full dream imagery.
This story is the equivalent of three units at 7200 words. I stopped at about 1300 and realized it was of a quality to supersede the example I was searching for and shall read it slowly and leisurely when I finish this post.

(To my immediate activity...)
I screamed out a 15-25 (onto numbered index cards) forward event lines/scenes progression to begin the battle process and I'm confident in the rapidity
and "Spontaneous Overflow of Emotion - as Poetics." that I won't find a better restart splice point emotionally to re-join myself to the story world processes.
(Due in part to your assists... /end insert)

That story suggested above gets a little cheesy or just simple directness depending on POV as analyst:
(Red Grave = Loss of Momentum)
(Martin Black = War beyond borders proper)

Your story suggestion shall remain as memory key; Tech-Effect occasional 20% Effect-Tech for ambush scenarios.
Yet still within the brief modus operandi of the sentence structures embodied in the writers pacing of, "The Stoker and the Stars."

This story I offer is a good example of the dillema the MC faces as my story opens.
He is asked for help by his childhood friend after his friend is accosted from the sky.
Of course as the story proceeds it all one grand time mafia plot and everyone is dirty even the MC Biker-Jesus style character.
Similar to your example, he's moving. Like the final scene of "Trainspotting."

In the end my MC rides of into the sunset.
I like this bit as an example.
I'm going to read that story I suggested in full motion video slow reading form.
In case you check it out and find value in it. So far it seems realistic as to the way people access various levels of advanced services but I won't know until I read it real slow and "enter" the story. I'll get back to you on it.
I like this riding into the sunset example. Rent On is a bit to cheesy a name though.
I
NT. LEFT LUGGAGE - DAY

Renton takes the passport from the envelope.

EXT. STREET - DAY

Renton walks away.

RENTON (V.O.)
Now, I've justified this to myself
in all sorts of ways: it wasn't a
big deal, just a minor betrayal,
or we'd outgrown each other, you
know, that sort of thing, but let's
face it, I ripped them off. My so-
called mates. But Begbie, I couldn't
give a shit about him, and Sick
Boy, well, he'd have done the same
to me if only he'd thought of it
first, and Spud, well, OK, I felt
sorry for Spud -- he never hurt
anybody.

INT. HOTEL - DAY

Prostitutes, punters, Sick Boy and Spud line the corridor
as two Policemen walk past towards:

INT. HOTEL ROOM - DAY

Begbie goes rad rage.

EXT. STREET - DAY

RENTON (V.O.)
So why did I do it? I could offer
a million answers, all false. The
truth is that I'm a bad person,
but that's going to change, I'm
going to change. This is the last
of this sort of thing. I'm cleaning
up and I'm moving on, going straight
and choosing life. I'm looking
forward to it already. I'm going
to be just like you: the job, the
family, the fucking big television,
the washing machine, the car, the
compact disc and electrical tin
opener, good health, low
cholesterol, dental insurance,
mortgage, starter home, leisurewear,
luggage, three-piece suite, D.I.Y,
game shows, junk food, children,
walks in the park, nine to five,
good at golf, washing the car,
choice of sweaters, family
Christmas, indexed pension, tax
exemption, clearing the gutters,
getting by, looking ahead, to the
day you die.

THE END

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Re: A Nano Parable

Post by polymath » November 11th, 2010, 12:49 pm

"The Stoker and the Stars" has what I know as a first person objective narrator reporting to an invisible journalist about a third person character, the stoker. It's an epistolary form convention of creative nonfiction not commonly seen in fiction. Fiction first person narrators are more commonly, if not invariably, main character, viewpoint character, and/or protagonist as well. The advantage of first person objective is it defuses self-reported subjective unrealability bias potential by being reported after the fact from a narrator close to the time and place of the reported circumstances.

I read "The Psilent Partner." I'd read it before. It has that Golden Age of science fiction awe and wonder quality that prevailed during that era of fantastical genre literature, as does "The Stoker and the Stars." Something beautiful went out of the world when awe and wonder declined in dramatic significance and were replaced with the rigid demands of plausibly credible circumstances so much in vogue of late.

Your walking into the sunset ending there does one thing Budry's recommends for endings. It validates the final outcome, wraps up loose ends and does it in close narrative distance, which is good. It might be a little overburdened by the lengthy listing. At least it's not the perhaps trite and overused equivalent: 2.3 children, 1.75 automobiles, 2.5 baths, white picketed fence suburbian dream. It does move forward into an afterstory readers can project, and in an ironical sense know the dream isn't all it's cracked up to be nor as easy as deciding to change and it is so because of the decision. Brilliant way to formulate a verbal irony through using overstatement.
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Re: A Nano Parable

Post by Steppe » November 12th, 2010, 12:05 pm

Polymath:
"The Stoker and the Stars" has what I know as a first person objective narrator reporting to an invisible journalist about a third person character, the stoker. It's an epistolary form convention of creative nonfiction not commonly seen in fiction.

Steppe:
Does the narrator in Moby Dick satisfy that conventions definition or is it a slight or magor variation falling all the way to first person.


Polymath: continues

Fiction first person narrators are more commonly, if not invariably, main character, viewpoint character, and/or protagonist as well. The advantage of first person objective is it defuses self-reported subjective unrealability bias potential by being reported after the fact from a narrator close to the time and place of the reported circumstances.

Steppe:

I liked the way the narrator dealt with his relationship with Macreedy and providing sub-text to his ongoing concern.
Prefaced the upcoming potential disaster averted whilst not crawling into a long digression into Mac's possible jumbled pathology.
You know Macreedy's reportage is unreliable adding a quick stressor to the tension level.


Polymath:

"I read "The Psilent Partner." I'd read it before. It has that Golden Age of science fiction awe and wonder quality that prevailed during that era of fantastical genre literature, as does "The Stoker and the Stars." Something beautiful went out of the world when awe and wonder declined in dramatic significance and were replaced with the rigid demands of plausibly credible circumstances so much in vogue of late.

Steppe:

I'm trying to hang onto it without it seeming like faerie dust and endless dues ex machina inserts.
Each of my characters has power allotted to them by their role in the worlds creation or management the real is viewed as a conscious ship of lights.

Polymath:

Your walking into the sunset ending there does one thing Budry's recommends for endings. It validates the final outcome, wraps up loose ends and does it in close narrative distance, which is good. It might be a little overburdened by the lengthy listing. At least it's not the perhaps trite and overused equivalent: 2.3 children, 1.75 automobiles, 2.5 baths, white picketed fence suburban dream. It does move forward into an after story readers can project, and in an ironical sense know the dream isn't all it's cracked up to be nor as easy as deciding to change and it is so because of the decision. Brilliant way to formulate a verbal irony through using overstatement.

Steppe:
I love that movie for characterizations and the idea that in the end we have many degrees of fellowship in life but are mostly each within the sphere of our own dramatic lineage or lack thereof. (Allusion to Riders on The Storm - The Doors)

Guttenberg is a great resource.
I browse the Daily Script sometimes and let arcs of rhythms and rhythmic collisions sink in as opposed to specific dialogue sequences and subjects.

I enjoyed that, Psilent Partners. It did have a bit of the "CLUE" board game style moments where it might be necessary to review the players and their stake in the shifting tides of alliances and partnership. The Bob "Stand Skill vs Stands Kill," a clever rhetorical device to foreshadow his pivotal role in pushing the deal over the top.
With the Mr. "Red Grave" being a slightly more obtuse usage of foreshadowing in terms of routine business terminology and easy access to associations among a particular setting and situations underlying common business nomenclature such as "in the red" or "Black Friday."y

They kept the special powers distribution on the up and up with only the government bureaucrats as the over all, over zealous, referees deliberately telegraphing the financial quarterbacks plays before he snaps the ball and interfering with the natural course of events. Both pieces seemed well edited for word melody and pacing.

Daily Script
http://www.dailyscript.com/movie.html

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Re: A Nano Parable

Post by polymath » November 12th, 2010, 1:39 pm

Moby Dick, among many other phenomena, has a first person subjective narrator, open to interpretation but close in time and place to the circumstances and reasonably reliable from having been there. It's a direct address to an audience in the vein of a folklore convention of an old salt telling a fish house liar tale to bystanders. Fish house liar tales are a time honored narrative tradition dating back I'm sure into the mists of time.

One of my filtering questions about a narrative is, Who addresses who about who. Moby Dick is narrated by Ishmael to a bystander audience about the peculiar contention between Ahab and Moby Dick, representing humankind and nature and asking the question are we part of or separate from nature. It's not the closest narrative distance possible, actually, first person's automatic close narrative distance is somewhat distanced by directly addressing readers. A reflexive self-address in any grammatical person narrator typically closes in closest of all and the dramatic action unfolds in the moment and place of the narrative as a tale unfolds with a narrator and/or reader surrogate experiencing the action in the moment and place of the narrative along with readers.

With so many other media channels competing for discretionary entertainment schedules and budgets, I'm a firm believer close narrative distance is a strength of narrative no other media is capable of providing as deeply; therefore, it's a best practice to create as close a narrative distance as possible. It is the dream spell of experiencing as close yet as vicariously a participation mystique of the exotic proxy reality that transports us into another private, intimate dimension of existence aside from our everyday routine existence.
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Re: A Nano Parable

Post by Steppe » November 14th, 2010, 8:46 am

I added key question
"Who addresses who about who"

To the outline's intro page as:

1.Who is the main character and what about him is compelling?
2.What does the main character want at the beginning of the story, and if it changes, what does he want later on?
3.Who is the antagonist, or what is preventing the main character from obtaining his wants?
4.What are the stakes if the main character fails at obtaining the goal?

5. The filtering question about narrative is: Who addresses who about who.

With a space between four and five.

------------------

The subtle discernment you made between first person objective and subjective is understood.
There subjective is used with the key modifier of directly addressing the reader - subtle but profound distinction.
The act in and of itself displaying a propensity of the narrator to try to distance himself from his own experience
subtly shading his future narrow escape.
Wiki: "Only Ishmael survives, clinging to Queequeg’s coffin-turned-life buoy for an entire day and night before the Rachel rescues him."

Rachel is my favorite female lead in the bible.
A tomboy female version of Huckleberry Finn.

In your discussion of immediacy I support that view intensely. First person immediacy is the trump.
Because I am writing a sweeping epic the third person omniscient narrator is supplanted by reports, logs and ritual recitations
sequences where the MC and Supporting cast are required to imprint and take possession of basic fabric properties
using the fundamental properties of the universe (Zero Point Engines) to insert themselves into the linear time space continuum.
This allows them to seize the role of narrator to inject back story and context.

When doing my first magor rewrite, transitions between voice shall be more seamless.

https://sites.google.com/site/intraphase/documents

Story First Draft & Key Restraints Questions.

I didn't want to add comment on your Moby Dick commentary because it was fine in and of itself.
The key dynamics outlined and identified with precision without unnecessarily shrinking the scope of the stories layers.

I think I am emotionally spliced back into my narrative now.
I have all my real world chores bills and household supplies in order.
Time to continue, come whatever may, with the help/aid a set of written specifics and a set of written abstracts to pit against each other
and keep the great conflagration relevant to all that came before and all that follows afterward.

If you should browse first draft; the conflict of pg. 1183 using Ishmael-Isaac-Abraham characters is a dodge and screen the positive supporting character
has bought into almost to his demise. The real conflict is between the Jesus Type Character /Pierce as a sheriff chasing Enoch and John The Divine
for trying to input self limiting self destroying codes that would destroy the three zero point engines and blink this part of the universe into non-existence.
MC views Enoch and Revelations as an attempt to maintain a state of "denial of services" attack on the three zero point engines.

I'll take your leave politely having tightly defined all open questions with your help.
I'll paste this discussion into the "Questions" document located with my digital safety copy of the first draft.

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Re: A Nano Parable

Post by polymath » November 14th, 2010, 10:29 am

One thing to add, the objective-subjective axis of narrative point of view reflects in a sense the covert-overt narrator axis. A narrator present in a narrative's setting is a subjective overt narrator expressing commentary on the topic or theme of the narrative and open to question and interpretation. At the extreme parameters of the axis, a subjective narrator is an unreliable narrator whose subjective reporting nonetheless paradoxically expresses a profound truth. Often, a subjective narrator is a narrative's reader surrogate. Ishmael, for example, is an open to intrepretion, subjective narrator from being the sole survivor of the Peqod, otherwise reliable and trustworthy enough from being there.

An objective narrator is one who reports the facts as they are known without expressing commentary, not necessarily a fully covert narrator, but frequently fully covert and absent altogether from a narrative's setting and usually reporting neutrally after the fact in favor of a viewpoint character or characters' expressed subjective commentary. Objective narrators are comparable to the ideal of the neutral, unbiased bystanding narrators of journalism. Of course, the extreme of objective narration can be too neutral and leave a narrative flat and lifeless if without a strong central character carrying expressed commentary; however, objective narrators allow for more psychic motility--access to multiple viewpoint characters' thoughts and expressed commentary--without necessarily distancing narrative distance, as long as a reader surrogate carries the closest narrative distance for the sake of reader rapport.

The unnamed narrator of John Sentry's, aka Algis Budry, "The Stoker and the Stars" is an objective narrator from reporting the stoker's backstory after the fact when all the facts are known or verifiable, though the narrator expresses commentary. The narrator of Ernest Hemingway's The Old Man and the Sea is a fully covert narrator and as objective a narrator as is humanly possible.

Between the two extremes is an infinite gamut of possibility. Usually, any given narrative will stay within a narrow segment of a narrative axis, but at least one novel I know of ranges from beginning to end across the spectrum of the subjective-objective axis. Kurt Vonnegut's Breakfast of Champions, beginning with as objective a narrator as humanly possible, moving toward increasingly subjective, and ending as subjectively questionable as humanly possible.

In another sense, all narrative is open to question and unreliableness and therefore subjective. Narrative arts are an art form limited to portraying proxies of proxy realities and cannot be anything but subjective. There's a remarkable transcendent paradox that occurs in well-crafted narratives though, from subjective comes reliable objective reporting and vice versa that nonetheless express profound truths.
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Steppe
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Re: A Nano Parable

Post by Steppe » November 15th, 2010, 9:13 am

I'll have to approach this in stages.
Once you broached the axis approach as a possible use of a blended shaded pictogram I locked onto it because of 3D imagining.
have previous psychological axis tools draw on from business and sales optimization studies.
A direct corollary in business psychology to overt and covert is the aliased terms direct and subtle/indirect as a personality axis on the horizontal plane.
That is the style axis and the method axis is controlling or supporting personality type. They use those two words to leave room for leader guru criminal guardian in the grid of transaction assessors.

This is a rough attempt to, overlay a graph, onto a graph.

Polymath: Opened the discussion with...

"One thing to add, the objective-subjective axis of narrative point of view reflects in a sense the covert-overt narrator axis."

Steppe: Seeking clarification...

Is there a one to one correspondence as...?

covert-overt
objective-subjective

These are my general thoughts so far.
If you know of a well formed lattice with defined axis grids style chart on narrative voices I am interested.

https://sites.google.com/site/intraphase/home/chart

The chart operates by a red to blue to black as levels of accuracy and importance/weights.
The black being the previous experience with behavior grids. The top words in the central plane
are the healthy stages with each words counterpart directly below the decaying state.

It used the axis, indirect - direct, as the horizontal axis and, supportive - controlling, as the vertical access.
The gist was to supply each personality with the type of stylized information and personality approach to draw them to close a sale or complete a mutual project.
Basically a long drawn out exercise to encourage people to see all the shades of self in their own and other peoples personalities using many video based examples of the actors playing the parts of the personality types.
I'll answer further below.

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