Placeholder Characters

The writing process, writing advice, and updates on your work in progress
Post Reply
bcomet
Posts: 588
Joined: January 23rd, 2010, 2:11 pm
Contact:

Placeholder Characters

Post by bcomet » October 16th, 2010, 11:11 am

What do you think about "placeholder characters?"

Does every character have to have an arc or be fully realized in your story?

Is there a reason why a character would be better just left to hold that sign so the other(main) characters can do their thing?

User avatar
Quill
Posts: 1059
Joined: March 17th, 2010, 9:20 pm
Location: Arizona
Contact:

Re: Placeholder Characters

Post by Quill » October 16th, 2010, 11:19 am

Every person should be a real person and want something, but no, not every character needs an arc.

I said person, but the same goes for dogs, ogres, what have you. Even if they appear in just one line, write it so we sense them as living and not as cardboard.

Jessa
Posts: 37
Joined: October 5th, 2010, 12:42 am
Contact:

Re: Placeholder Characters

Post by Jessa » October 16th, 2010, 11:26 am

One of the best pieces of advice I ever got from a book was from Donald Maass's "Writing the Breakout Novel" in which he talks about combining characters. Sometimes you'll find you end up with one complex character instead of two blah characters.

There hasn't been a story I've written since that hasn't benefited from this advice. Usually I look at a story and think, "What would be lost if I took out X?" And if the answer is nothing or very little, I find a way to combine the role they do have in the story with someone else's role. For instance, in my most recently completed thing, I had two cops, a male and a female. Somewhere along the line I realized that I only did it because all detectives have partners, but the female's role was relatively minor. She made a few cogent observations, but overall had little to do. So I took her out, reworded her bits and put them in the mouth of the male detective, and suddenly he came off as a much more intelligent guy rather than just "Bellicose Cop #1".

Placeholder characters have no place. Get rid of them.

bcomet
Posts: 588
Joined: January 23rd, 2010, 2:11 pm
Contact:

Re: Placeholder Characters

Post by bcomet » October 16th, 2010, 11:36 am

What about a character - not cardboard, but not fully developed either?

Some members of my crit group were debating whether such a minor character in a story needed more of an arc and it was about a half/half split.

User avatar
polymath
Posts: 1821
Joined: December 8th, 2009, 11:22 am
Location: Babel
Contact:

Re: Placeholder Characters

Post by polymath » October 16th, 2010, 11:40 am

"Placeholder characters" I know as extras. They are for causal ambience, atmosphere, verisimilitude. If a narrator/main character/protagonist has reason to notice them as a group entity or individually, it's some form of causal interaction and the interaction should contribute to plot movement.

A demo-agoraphobe crushed in a mob will feel anxiety and react. That's causation and an empathy-worthy antagonsim. Empathy is a part of tension in how it makes readers care what happens next. What happens next? is the single most basic suspense question for building tension. Artfully, timely, and credibly delaying answering suspense questions moves a plot along.

A sign-toting protestor impeding a viewpoint character's path is a cause for perhaps a confrontation. One bystanding off to the side might display a sign that annoys the viewpoint character. If the sign toter's appearance resonates with the sign's message, that description is an opportunity for the viewpoint character's thoughts to give voice to the annoyance, express commentary in thought or speech or another action. Perception and cognition are cause and effect: causation.

I consider whether an extra contributes causation, tension, and antagonism (purpose and complication) for whether an extra or extras are necessary or superfluous. If not, I excise, or recast so they, he, she, or it are.
Spread the love of written word.

bcomet
Posts: 588
Joined: January 23rd, 2010, 2:11 pm
Contact:

Re: Placeholder Characters

Post by bcomet » October 16th, 2010, 12:48 pm

great breakdown. makes sense. thanks.

any references to such minor characters?
would love a reference list of various examples (that work and also that don't work) from books, movies, tv shows, etc.

thanks

User avatar
polymath
Posts: 1821
Joined: December 8th, 2009, 11:22 am
Location: Babel
Contact:

Re: Placeholder Characters

Post by polymath » October 16th, 2010, 1:08 pm

Minor characters are often invisible stage dressing in film media. The crowds that surround two people arguing when they cross a street in New York. The background characters passing by indifferently when a group of focal characters are talking on a sidewalk. The horrified, curious bystanders at crime scenes, etc.

Here's an example from Ernest Hemingway's The Old Man and the Sea because I have it close to hand. Santiago and Manillo are relaxing at a café having a beer and a Coke, respectively. Manillo bought them. It's the evening before Santiago departs on his epic fishing trip, which he hopes will prove he's not salao, a useless old salt past his prime, which is the reputation he's gotten from two, back-to-back, three-month bad luck streaks.

"They sat on the Terrace and many of the fishermen made fun of the old man and he was not angry. Others, of the old fishermen, looked at him and were sad. But they did not show it and they spoke politely about the current and the depths they had drifted their lines at and the steady good weather and of what they had seen." Page 11.
Spread the love of written word.

bcomet
Posts: 588
Joined: January 23rd, 2010, 2:11 pm
Contact:

Re: Placeholder Characters

Post by bcomet » October 16th, 2010, 1:18 pm

Interesting.

However, I am not thinking background character so much as named characters who have a thin but repeating presence.

For example, Lois Lane and Jimmy and even the chief in Superman are not fully developed and yet even though they are cardboard cartoon-like, they serve the drama. Jimmy is innocent and enthusiastic. Lois Lane is always the damsel in distress and the link to Superman. He must save her. The chief drives the reporters to go out and get that story. But as characters in and of themselves, not so much.
Still, it works.

User avatar
polymath
Posts: 1821
Joined: December 8th, 2009, 11:22 am
Location: Babel
Contact:

Re: Placeholder Characters

Post by polymath » October 16th, 2010, 1:47 pm

Minor characters who aren't stage dressing I refer to as auxilliary or supporting characters. Lois Lane and Jimmy, for example, as supporting characters, foils for Clark Kent to interact with, and victims for Superman to rescue. Auxilliary characters, for example, unnamed characters who have speaking lines, like other reporters who Kent and Lane and Jimmy interact with.

Auxilliary and supporting characters have less character development because they're not pivotal, and are usually stock character types. Stock characters don't need much development because they're readily identified for what they represent. Their whole kit and caboodle is prepackaged in readers' cultural coding convention experiences. Lois Lane, the professional woman with a heart of gold. That one is a modern socially sensitive variant of the hooker with a heart of gold traditionally standard in literature of the past. Jimmy, the hapless (young) man.

Suggested reading;

List of stock female characters
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fe ... characters

Archetype characters
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archetype

Stock characters, mostly male characters but their characteristics and usages and nuances and historical development are discussed
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stock_characters
Spread the love of written word.

Margo
Posts: 1712
Joined: April 5th, 2010, 11:21 am
Contact:

Re: Placeholder Characters

Post by Margo » October 16th, 2010, 1:49 pm

Jessa wrote:One of the best pieces of advice I ever got from a book was from Donald Maass's "Writing the Breakout Novel" in which he talks about combining characters. Sometimes you'll find you end up with one complex character instead of two blah characters.

There hasn't been a story I've written since that hasn't benefited from this advice. Usually I look at a story and think, "What would be lost if I took out X?" And if the answer is nothing or very little, I find a way to combine the role they do have in the story with someone else's role. For instance, in my most recently completed thing, I had two cops, a male and a female. Somewhere along the line I realized that I only did it because all detectives have partners, but the female's role was relatively minor. She made a few cogent observations, but overall had little to do. So I took her out, reworded her bits and put them in the mouth of the male detective, and suddenly he came off as a much more intelligent guy rather than just "Bellicose Cop #1".

Placeholder characters have no place. Get rid of them.
What Jessa said. Cardboard characters will get you slaughtered by reviewers and many many readers. Window dressing characters end up cluttering the pages with extra names to remember. I can think of a few times I got upset with an author for wasting my time with a character that was meaningless, a mere convenience. I don't want the author to lessen my experience for author convenience. I can (and do) switch to an author who is going to work harder than that for me.

FYI, Jessa, not all detectives have partners, so it's okay to have a lone detective.
Urban fantasy, epic fantasy, and hot Norse elves. http://margolerwill.blogspot.com/

Claudie
Posts: 707
Joined: June 9th, 2010, 3:57 pm
Location: Quebec
Contact:

Re: Placeholder Characters

Post by Claudie » October 16th, 2010, 1:52 pm

I think you should develop them anyway. They don't need to change with the story, but the moment we can point at a character and call him cardboard, your world and story loses realism. Give them a life of their own, a personality and goals that do not depend on your story. Otherwise, they're not characters, they are plot devices. Undisguised plot devices.

Basically, what Quill said:

[quote=Quill]Every person should be a real person and want something, but no, not every character needs an arc.

I said person, but the same goes for dogs, ogres, what have you. Even if they appear in just one line, write it so we sense them as living and not as cardboard.[/quote]
"I do not think there is any thrill [...] like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... Such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything." -- Nikola Tesla

Margo
Posts: 1712
Joined: April 5th, 2010, 11:21 am
Contact:

Re: Placeholder Characters

Post by Margo » October 16th, 2010, 1:56 pm

Claudie wrote: Otherwise, they're not characters, they are plot devices. Undisguised plot devices.

Exactly.
Urban fantasy, epic fantasy, and hot Norse elves. http://margolerwill.blogspot.com/

bcomet
Posts: 588
Joined: January 23rd, 2010, 2:11 pm
Contact:

Re: Placeholder Characters

Post by bcomet » October 16th, 2010, 3:40 pm

Seems a passionate agreement here. I will relate this to my group in question.

When I think of John Green, Looking for Alaska, I think all the characters are developed.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ahrefs [Bot] and 20 guests