Beta readers - when and who?

[Auralius]

Question's in the title. I'm 50K words into my first novel, about halfway done. Should I wait until I finish the story to offer it up for crits from beta readers? Is now ok? Is having family or close friends as my betas fine, or should I go for more of an outside opinion? If I go for outsiders, where do I find them? Advice appreciated.

[Jemmichanga]

Hey. Good question! I'm interested to hear people's responses to this too.

Personally, I think I made a mistake letting someone read the first few chapters of my last WIP after about 40,000 words. It was a non-writer who didn't realize that writers re-write and nothing's perfect the first time around... soooo I didn't get the right response (i.e. what worked, what didn't) and it killed that WIP for me. I am a little neurotic though... I need a cheerleader who encourages while they criticize. I also chose someone who only reads 3 books a year. My bad!

I've also given some stuff to my mum to read but I don't write what she normally reads so I think it was hard for her to get into... she likes romances that invariably involve bare-chested Navy SEALS and I write YA. So she wasn't the best choice of beta reader. That taught me to choose people that already read what I write.

Maybe you could try a number of different people to get more perspectives?

I read 'On Writing' by Stephen King and he recommends completely finishing a story before opening it up to other readers... I think that's good advice... especially since my stories tend to evolve by the time they're finished - I often go back to the beginning and add stuff to develop the themes and tie it all together nicely. If you haven't read his book I'd recommend it... doesn't take long and he's a really entertaining guy!

I read somewhere that a lot of people have online critique partners that they meet in forums. It would be great if there were a thread where we could find beta-readers to swap WIPs with!

[polymath]

Connect With a Critique Partner forum is alive and well here at Bransford's forums. It's at the bottom of my screen view under the Feedback Central heading.

[Jemmichanga]

Connect With a Critique Partner forum is alive and well here at Bransford's forums. It's at the bottom of my screen view under the Feedback Central heading.

Thanks polymath! I'm a total noob :)

*wanders off toward Feedback Central*

[Ermo]

I'm one of those writers that thinks you could probably benefit from a beta reader at just about every stage of a novel. The key is to understand that you don't have to take every bit of advice a beta reader gives you. You'll know which pieces are worthwhile because they'll either verify a concern you had or really open you eyes to something you didn't see. You can find good beta readers in the critique forum on here.

[Claudie]

I don't have betas yet, nor have I looked for them. I'm in the first draft stage, and my first draft are such a mess I would feel bad for submitting them. It's not because I don't want them to see the sucky text, though. Constructive criticism is long and hard to give, and I don't want to waste their time.

[Jessa]

I'm like Claudie. I don't get beta readers until the ms is in the best shape I can get it in. When I think it's done and ready to send, that's when I get my first-reader to take a look at it. It's no help to me if I send them something and get back a page of comments on stuff I know I have to fix, and they just get annoyed. "Well, if you knew you had to fix stuff, why'd you send it to me?" They start to feel like their input isn't important because "I knew all that."

After I get the comments back from the first reader, I ask him a bunch of questions if he didn't address them in his comments. Things that have been worrying me or things I'm not sure about. Like, "Did you think that Plot Point X was too contrived?" or "Was Character's accent annoying?" or "During ____ scene, did you feel that Character came off too powerful given what's said before and after?" This helps me direct his attention to scenes and situations he might have accepted or had some little "?" over his head about but didn't comment on, and it helps me feel less neurotic about some things.

After that rewrite, then I seek out comments from others. Sometimes I'll use Critters, an online critique site which has a long history of helpful critiques. The biggest problem for me at this stage is that it's universally accepted that in writer's groups or critique groups that you'll GIVE critiques and not just get them. That means I have to read other peoples' stuff when I want my head full of my stuff. So this is a hard step for me. Plus, I really, really struggle with writing critiques that are useful and not just "For the love of God, learn what a semi-colon is for!" or "Did you type with cherry tomatoes on your fingers?" Nathan's "sandwich" rule is something I've done for years, without calling it quite that. Praise-helpful criticism-praise is a great pattern for giving bad news to people.

Anyway, I take in the comments from people who aren't worried that I know where they live and give it a day or two. Then I read them again. My initial feeling is usually "Philistines!" and I hate them all. I have to give myself a day or so to think about what they've said and figure out if they're correct or not. Then there's one more rewrite. I do not send this second version out for general comments, though I may take the rewritten parts (if they're extensive) and send it to my first reader again to see what he thinks.

[sierramcconnell]

Write the novel.
Re-read it.
Laugh at how terrible it is.
Re-write it.
Re-read it.
Re-write some more.
Re-read it.
Re-write a little more.
Send it out to a few people, take a break. OMG, you forgot there was a world out there. It does not smell of socks.
Get the feedback, make the changes you agree with. If you feel -in your heart- that it's not right, question it for a couple days. Do not reply with anything. Think on it silently. If you see it would make a better book? You change that sucker. If not, you tell your beta polietly that you don't really agree with it or you ask for clarification.
Once those changes are made, you re-read it again. Polish it, make it shiny, and you start over.
Yes. You make it snap together because you've found holes. You need it to be perfect. Then you send it out again.
Rinse, Repeat, until it shines.

It can take a while.

[smasover]

I choose my beta-readers carefully. I like to have a variety of ages, both sexes, people who read books like the one I'm asking them to read & people who read something else, people who are writers & people who are not.

I also take care about asking for feedback only when I think my mss. is "done." At the same time, I know that the "done" feeling is going to happen over and over again, with a series of uncomfortable lardings of "undone" in-between. So: best I can do without outside perspective; get some outside perspective; shake it up and try again. As Claudie said, "Constructive criticism is long and hard to give, and I don't want to waste their time."

These two tactics together mean that I'd be a fool if I didn't "spend" my chits carefully. I don't ask everybody I know who might be a good reader-candidate to read the same draft. A few here; a different few next time; a different different few the time after that. A very few are game for reading multiple drafts, but I usually ask others to read at least one interim draft before requesting a re-read.

As sierramcconnell said, "It can take a while."

[Auralius]

Thanks for the advice, all. Sounds like I ought to hold off for now. Off to write.