OVERBOARD - Revision #1 Posted

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alienbogey
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OVERBOARD - Revision #1 Posted

Post by alienbogey » December 16th, 2010, 12:15 am

I can't for the life of me decide between first and third person viewpoint for my query and I have dozens and dozens of iterations of each. Finally I thought that I'd post the currently best versions of each and see what you all think. Without further ado:


Dear Agent,

My name is Silas Jacobson and I killed my father. It was a pure accident, but as a result I left our farm with Pa’s bowie knife and a guilty conscience. Since then I’ve done my best to forget my big mistake by riding on magnificent Mississippi steamboats while having a grand time fighting, fornicating, and cheating at cards with my beautiful gambling mentor Josie. The trouble is that after I dodged an enemy’s bullets by jumping overboard from a steamer I bobbed to the surface thinking only of Hannah.

Months before she had pulled me out of the river after a knife fight and nursed me back to health while, incidentally, running slaves to freedom on the Underground Railroad. After abandoning Josie’s ship the thought of Hannah and her work pulled me a thousand miles up the river to find her, help her, and fall in love with her.

Now my fiery little Abolitionist has been caught and imprisoned. My old partner Josie is here, my enemy is here, and I’m knee-crawling drunk in the mud because I found out that Hannah has been deceiving me all along. It’s only fair that I repay my debt and break her out of jail, but I’m not sure that I can love her any more.

OVERBOARD is a completed 169,000 word work of historical fiction.

My professional writing credits are [ redacted ].

I look forward to hearing from you.

Sincerely,

[alienbogey]
[contact info]

Note: 3rd person query now at post #4
Last edited by alienbogey on December 23rd, 2010, 3:23 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: OVERBOARD - 1st Person Query

Post by gilesth » December 16th, 2010, 8:19 am

The general rule among agents is that queries are to be written in third-person, present-tense. From what I understand, it's because at this point, you're marketing yourself and your writing style as much as you're marketing your book. Query Shark had some interesting things to say on the topic.

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Re: OVERBOARD - 1st Person Query

Post by alienbogey » December 16th, 2010, 2:05 pm

Giles,

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I've read every post on Query Shark and have seen her recommendation against first person. I just can't resist first person, though, because that's the way the book is written and I'm guessing that whatever voice I may possess will come through best that way.

However, I do have a third person query that I should be able to post soon and I hope to get commentary on both versions. [on edit: 3rd person query now posted following this]
Last edited by alienbogey on December 16th, 2010, 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: OVERBOARD - 1st Person Query

Post by alienbogey » December 16th, 2010, 8:45 pm

Folks, here is my current best-effort at the query written in the third person. I would very much appreciation feedback on each, as well as opinions on which to most concentrate on improving. Thanks in advance.



Dear Agent,

Silas Jacobson killed his father. It was a pure accident, but his guilt drove him from the family farm seeking to forget his mistake and find a good time. He initially succeeds to admiration as he travels on magnificent Mississippi steamboats and makes a good friend of an ex-mountain man, an enemy of a plantation owner, and has a grand time fighting, fornicating, and cheating at cards with his gambling mentor, Josie.

The trouble is that he keeps thinking about Hannah Granger, the young woman who saved his life earlier. She pulled him from the river, sewed him back together and nursed him back to health while, incidentally, running slaves to freedom on the Underground Railroad. When his enemy’s pistol shots force Silas to jump overboard from a steamer he bobs to the surface to begin a thousand mile journey up the big river to find her, join her in her work, and fall in love with her.

Now the fiery young Abolitionist has been caught and imprisoned. Josie is there, his enemy is there, and Silas is hog-wallow drunk in back alley mud because he found out that Hannah has been deceiving him all along. He certainly owes her a debt and plans to break her out of jail, but he doesn’t think he can love her anymore.

OVERBOARD is a completed 169,000 word work of historical fiction.

My professional writing credits are [ redacted ].

I look forward to hearing from you.

Sincerely,

[alienbogey]
[contact info]

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Re: OVERBOARD - 1st Person Query

Post by fishfood » December 16th, 2010, 9:31 pm

alienbogey wrote:Folks, here is my current best-effort at the query written in the third person. I would very much appreciation feedback on each, as well as opinions on which to most concentrate on improving. Thanks in advance.



Dear Agent,

Silas Jacobson killed his father. Good opening line. It was apure accident, but his guilt drove him from the family farm seeking to forget his mistake and find a good time. He initially succeeds to admiration (what does this mean? "succeeds to admiration?") as he travels on magnificent Mississippi steamboats and makes a good friend of an ex-mountain man, an enemy of a plantation owner, and has a grand time fighting, fornicating, and cheating at cards with his gambling mentor, Josie. Sentence is a bit too long and convoluted, I'd break it up.

The trouble is that he keeps thinking about Hannah Granger, the young woman who saved his life earlier.??? You need to tell us he fell into the river first. You sort of back track by telling us how he got saved before telling us he was in the river. She pulled him from the river, sewed him back together and nursed him back to health while, incidentally, running slaves to freedom on the Underground Railroad. Kind of a messy sentence. Try something like: Hannah managed to nurse him back to health while simultaneously running slaves to freedom on the Underground Railroad. When his enemy’s pistol shots force Silas to jump overboard from a steamer he bobs to the surface to begin a thousand mile journey up the big river to find her, join her in her work, and fall in love with her. ???What's he doing back on the boat? Oh, wait....he was thinking about her. It's best to tell the query in the order of events.
Now the fiery young Abolitionist has been caught and imprisoned. Josie is there, his enemy is there, and Silas is hog-wallow drunk in back alley mud because he found out that Hannah has been deceiving him all along. He certainly owes her a debt and plans to break her out of jail, but he doesn’t think he can love her anymore.

So where's the conflict? He's going to break her out of jail and not love her anymore? That's it?

OVERBOARD is a completed 169,000 word work of historical fiction.

My professional writing credits are [ redacted ].

I look forward to hearing from you. Thank you for your time and consideration. Sincerely,

[alienbogey]
[contact info]
I'm going to be a little harsh here and say that I'm doubtful you read ALL of queryshark's posts. She has a pretty good formula for writing queries that she talks about and you've still broken some of the rules she harps about over and over. And I hate the be the bearer of bad news, but even if your query sparkled, agents will take one look at the 169,000 words and give you a form rejection. Can you break it up into two books? My guess is from the long run-on sentences and disjointed structure of the query that this may be a first draft of your book.

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Re: OVERBOARD - 1st Person & 3rd Person Queries

Post by alienbogey » December 16th, 2010, 9:55 pm

Fishfood,

Thanks for the helpful input.

Despite appearances to the contrary, I've been through each one of Query Shark's posts, from the first to the most recent, twice over. :)

I know, I know, 169,000 words is a little (or a lot) over the top. The current draft is the 7th; the first draft weighed in at 220,000 (gasp).

Split it in two? Not going to work, but thanks for the suggestion.

alienbogey

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Re: OVERBOARD - 1st Person Query

Post by daisiem » December 17th, 2010, 8:38 am

Since I am new at queries, I hope you don't mind my feedback. I just wanted to point out the parts that I liked and parts that seemed a bit confusing. I hope it helps.
alienbogey wrote:
Dear Agent,

Silas Jacobson killed his father. It was a pure accident, but his guilt drove him from the family farm seeking to forget his mistake and find a good time. He initially succeeds to admiration as he travels on magnificent Mississippi steamboats and makes a good friend of an ex-mountain man, an enemy of a plantation owner, and has a grand time fighting, fornicating, and cheating at cards with his gambling mentor, Josie. This sentence runs on a bit . It would be clearer if it was broken up into a couple of sentences.

The trouble is that he keeps thinking about Hannah Granger, the young woman who saved his life earlier. She pulled him from the river, sewed him back together and nursed him back to health while, incidentally, running slaves to freedom on the Underground Railroad. I like the part about the underground Railroad. It is an interesting plot. When his enemy’s pistol shots force Silas to jump overboard from a steamer he bobs to the surface to begin a thousand mile journey up the big river to find her, join her in her work, and fall in love with her. Another long sentence that would probably work better broken up.

Now the fiery young Abolitionist has been caught and imprisoned. Josie is there, his enemy is there, and Silas is hog-wallow drunk in back alley mud because he found out that Hannah has been deceiving him all along.Another run-on sentence, but I like the voice. He certainly owes her a debt and plans to break her out of jail, but he doesn’t think he can love her anymore.

OVERBOARD is a completed 169,000 word work of historical fiction. I agree with the others on this one, from what I have read, 169,000 words may cause a rejection

My professional writing credits are [ redacted ].

I look forward to hearing from you.

Sincerely,

[alienbogey]
[contact info]

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Re: OVERBOARD - 1st Person Query

Post by Quill » December 17th, 2010, 9:45 am

Congratulations on reducing this very interesting-sounding story from 220K to 169K words. Hopefully you can cut another 50K to get it down to a marketable size. The unfortunate situation in today's publishing world is that debut books from new authors, even in such areas as historical fiction, pretty much need to be 120K or less. That's my understanding, anyway. Maybe a subplot can be removed, or a particular adventure here or there. Also, look out for adjectives you can sponge out (I see your query's got plenty).

alienbogey wrote: Silas Jacobson killed his father. It was a pure accident,
I'd cut "pure" as it doesn't add anything.
but his guilt drove him from the family farm seeking to forget his mistake and find a good time.
Slightly awkward: guilt drove him from, seeking to forget and find.
He initially succeeds to admiration
No idea what this means: "succeeds to admiration".
as he travels on magnificent Mississippi steamboats
I'd cut "magnificent" as it comes across as author editorializing rather than the opinion of the protagonist. (this fellow so far does not seem the type to appreciate their magnificence).
and makes a good friend of an ex-mountain man, an enemy of a plantation owner, and has a grand time fighting, fornicating, and cheating at cards with his gambling mentor, Josie.
Somehow a bit weak. For one thing you have weak verbs (makes, has) supporting strong ones (fight, fornicate, cheat), which you weaken with "-ing" . Can you say "befriends, fights, fornicates, cheats" (don't know about sprucing up the enemy part). Also weakening are the qualifying phrases "a good friend of" and "a grand time" instead of directly saying, again "befriends" or "fights". I know you are going for a certain flavor, and I'm sure you can write this better than I, but nevertheless I think it could be stated more directly.
The trouble is that he keeps thinking about Hannah Granger, the young woman who saved his life earlier. She pulled him from the river, sewed him back together and nursed him back to health while, incidentally, running slaves to freedom on the Underground Railroad. When his enemy’s pistol shots force Silas to jump overboard from a steamer
This could be made clearer. You have two separate 'in the river' incidents which read almost as one because they run into each other. It is also less clear than it could be because you say she saved his life BEFORE you have her pull him from the river. Maybe a semi-colon between "earlier" and "She pulled" would show us you are explaining the saving. A little awkward to see her slave-saving shoe-horned into the same sentence, also, by the way. Any way to separate this?
he bobs to the surface to begin a thousand mile journey up the big river to find her, join her in her work, and fall in love with her.
Again, seems to be too much in this sentence, too much summary attempted, leading to awkwardness among verbs: "When shots force, he bobs to begin, to find, join, and fall." Grammatically it needs a cleanup, don't you agree?
Now the fiery young Abolitionist has been caught and imprisoned.
Not immediately clear who the fiery Abolitionist is? Do we all know that a courier on the underground railroad is an Abolitionist? Also, why tell us twice she is young?
Josie is there, his enemy is there,
There?? Where?? In the prison?
and Silas is hog-wallow drunk in back alley mud because he found out that Hannah has been deceiving him all along. He certainly owes her a debt and plans to break her out of jail, but he doesn’t think he can love her anymore.
Poor guy! Hey, does this fellow have any redeeming qualities? Or is he just a good timer bouncing around and basically a schlep who gets what he deserves? Here's your chance to show us his character. I like the setting of this story, but I can't quite get a bead on why I'd want to read it. Is there spicy romance? Clever plotting of action and adventure? Any moral lessons put forth? You have the space to add couple sentences to convey a bit more of the flavor. You've certainly encapsulated the situation of the story nicely.
OVERBOARD is a completed 169,000 word work of historical fiction.
Once again, I'd like to see you avoid the automatic rejection due to length. Any way to cut 50K more?

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Re: OVERBOARD - 1st Person & 3rd Person Queries

Post by alienbogey » December 22nd, 2010, 1:16 pm

First, thanks for every comment.

Observations:

> Yes, I know the word count is high, but when you've gone from 220K to 170K you begin to feel that there's no fat left, just lean. I cut out a character that I loved and an entire journey, for example, and I can't think of a single scene left that isn't necessary for following scenes. Yes, I can strive to reduce adjectives and such, but there aren't 50,000 adjectives to cut. I'm going to go through it as severely as I can on the next rewrite, but I really think it will query in the 160's and if I have no luck it will go to the back of the closet shelf and I'll start on another.

> I'm a trifle surprised at the problem some folks had with the phrase 'succeeds to admiration'. What I'm striving for is enough 19th century language and phraseology to evoke the period, and when I Googled the phrase it promptly popped up in books with publication dates from 1820 to 1901. That shows that my period-correct phrase is legitimate (the novel is set in 1848), but if it only looks to people as if I use nonsensical phrases it can't help the query. Hmm, what to do?

> Since folks have pretty much ignored the first person version of the query I guess I'll concentrate on the third person.

> I can see now, thanks to the comments, that the conflict does appear to be a little thin, and I realize that I didn't reveal more out of a strange reluctance to not give too much away.

> Back to the drawing board, thanks again.

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Re: OVERBOARD - 1st Person & 3rd Person Queries

Post by alienbogey » December 23rd, 2010, 3:22 pm

Below is Revision #1:


Silas Jacobson loved Hannah Granger right up to the point that she betrayed him.

It all started when he killed his father. It was a pure accident, but it drove him to take the next steamboat out of town carrying nothing but Pa’s bowie knife and a short temper. Silas brawls with an ex-mountain man who becomes his best friend, disarms a plantation owner who becomes his worst enemy, and exasperates Hannah Granger when she pulls him out of the river after a knife fight.

Hannah and her family use their trading scow to run slaves to freedom on the Underground Railroad. Upon reaching New Orleans she asks the recuperated Silas to join them in their work, but Silas has caught the eye of Josie Fallon, professional gambler.

Silas has a grand time fighting, fornicating, and cheating at cards with Josie, but he can’t stop thinking about Hannah. When he settles a gambling debt by freeing two slaves he realizes that emancipating people is more rewarding than separating suckers from their money, so he journeys up the Mississippi to find the Abolitionist family.

A Railroad mission is betrayed and the Grangers imprisoned. Hannah is desperate, Josie offers a renewal of their old partnership, and Silas is hog-wallow drunk in alley mud because he found out that Hannah has deceived him all along. He has to bust her out of jail - he owes her and the Railroad depends on it - but he recoils at the notion of loving her anymore.

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Re: OVERBOARD - 1st Person & 3rd Person Queries

Post by ajcattapan » December 26th, 2010, 4:05 pm

First of all, your assumption that people are commenting on your third-person query instead of your first-person query because it's better is correct. Your third-person query really is more engaging. Don't worry about your manuscript itself being in first person. Your first-person voice will be demonstrated in your sample pages/chapters.
alienbogey wrote:Below is Revision #1:

Silas Jacobson loved Hannah Granger right up to the point that she betrayed him. I liked your old opening sentence better.

It all started when he Silas Jacobsin killed his father. It was a pure accident, but it Even though it was an accident, the guilt and pain drove drive him to take the next steamboat out of town carrying nothing but Pa’s bowie knife and a short temper. Silas brawls with an ex-mountain man who becomes his best friend, disarms a plantation owner who becomes his worst enemy, and exasperates Hannah Granger when she pulls him out of who rescues him from the river after a knife fight. (Keep the parallel structure going.)

Hannah and her family use their trading scow (Is "scow" another period term? Even though you want to include terms from the time period, they only work if the reader recognizes them.) to run slaves to freedom on the Underground Railroad. Upon reaching New Orleans she asks the recuperated Silas to join them in their work, but Silas has caught the eye of Josie Fallon, professional gambler.

Silas has a grand time fighting, fornicating, and cheating at cards with Josie, but he can’t stop thinking about Hannah. When he settles a gambling debt by freeing two slaves, he realizes that emancipating people is more rewarding than separating suckers from their money, so he journeys up the Mississippi to find the Aabolitionist family. (I like this paragraph much better than the earlier versions. It's easier to follow because it's written in chronological order.)

(Missing time reference--do the events in this paragraph happen after he meets up with the Grangers again?) An Underground Railroad mission is betrayed and the Grangers imprisoned. Hannah is desperate, Josie offers a renewal of their old partnership, and Silas is hog-wallow drunk in alley mud because he found out that Hannah has deceived him all along. He has to bust her out of jail - he owes her and the Railroad depends on it - but he recoils at the notion of loving her anymore. When Silas learns that Hannah has been deceiving him all along, he must decide if he'll bust Hannah out of jail even though he no longer loves her or return to his old life with Josie.
I know many people have already warned you about the probable form rejection you'd receive from such a long manuscript. Here's a little tip I learned from a writing instructor. Try looking for overused words that really don't add much meaning to your story. I use the "find" function on Word to check for these words, and I've been surprised how many words I really can cut from my story. (Yes, sometimes that equals hundreds or even thousands of words cut.) Here is the list:

just, so, such, very, really, even, at all, certainly, definitely, exactly, anyway, some, usually, probably, maybe, rather, fairly, perhaps, sort of, kind of, somewhat, quite, a little, almost, and slightly

Of course, these words can be useful at times, but often deleting them from your sentences will actually make them stronger. Good luck!

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Re: OVERBOARD - Revision #1 Posted

Post by Jeanne Bannon » December 28th, 2010, 3:39 pm

Hi - I like the first person POV, even though I know most queries are written in third person. That said, why not try both and see what kind of response you get. Send one version off and then try another (of course to different agents). The first person POV is fresh and exciting and gives the reader a sense of your writing style. It pulled me in and felt like I was reading an excerpt from your book. You never know...something different just might be the ticket.

OVERBOARD is a completed 169,000 word work of historical fiction. - I don't think you need to say 'is completed.' I would imagine the agent would know it's completed simply by the fact you're sending queries.

I've read some people think the length might be an issue, but your book is historical fiction and that type of book tends to be longer. As long as you're within the norm for the genre, I think you're good.

Best of luck to you :)

Jeanne

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Re: OVERBOARD - Revision #1 Posted

Post by daisiem » January 4th, 2011, 11:45 am

I really liked the liveliness of your voice in the first query. The second query seemed less fresh and alive. In the first query you used words that the character would have used, I think that is the difference. Also, just as a thought, on the word count. Is it possible to break the book down into two novels. That way you wouldn't have to remove any more important details, and you would have a good word count for 2 novels. Just a thought.

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